Sonic Frontiers SFD-1mk2 Vintage DAC for $750 That Stomps Most Modern DACs

My bad. I forgot about those.

Some years ago, as part of a forum group, we tried different caps doing the same job as those Mundorf caps. I tried those Mundorf Evo caps and didn't care for them compared to other similarly priced caps. Of course, that was a different device and my choices didn't always line up with others, so that opinion isn't worth much. But since we are playing around with these things a bit more, I may consider trying a few caps. I have noticed that Sonic Frontiers made changes to components over time and that PCX changes it's SE+ mods over time. I'm guessing there is a certain amount of using what they have on hand at the time, so I don't feel bad changing things to my own taste.

 

same thing @loadexfa did for his SE+ upgrade to his old DAC. it's a smart move, the XLR outs are just there for convenience on the SFD-1.

 

This is indeed true. Though I've seen PCX use Mundorf's, Vcaps, and DynamiCaps a lot with the SF DACs, it would be interesting to try a few others.

 

Those Mundorf Evo's are part of a high pass filter to remove the DC from the output. Per the schematic, the caps were originally 5.6 uF. The Mundorf Evo's are 3.3 uF which shows that the value of the caps you try isn't that critical. For example, at 5.6 uF the corner frequency of the filter is 0.057 Hz. At 3.3 uF, it's 0.097 Hz. And at 1 uF it's 0.319 Hz. There are lots of very nice amps that have a corner frequency in the 1 - 3 Hz range, so this is very low. Plus, the phase shift is all less than 1 degree. I mention this because I'm going to play around with caps that I already have in the 1 to 2.2 uF range. If you have to buy some caps to try, the 1 uF caps are much smaller and cheaper than 3.3 uF caps.

 

Any chance you took pics of the innards on the Processor 3 with upgrade?

 

Any impressions/comparisons yet, @edwyun ?

 

Ok, this is a poll. Asking what YOU would do, not what I should do:

You 'need' a new DAC in your streaming chain.

You have two Sonic Frontiers DACs in front of you: A stock SFD1 MkII, and a stock SFD2.

What do you do, and why ?

1) Assuming you can afford it, have Parts Connexion upgrade the SFD 1 to 'SE' and stick it in the chain

2) Assuming you can afford it, have Parts Connexion upgrade the SFD 2 to 'SE' and stick it in the chain

3) Upgrade the output caps to Mundorfs yourself and stick it in the chain

4) Forget the upgrades and just start listening, dammit !

5) Forget this old POS. If you can afford the upgrade you should just buy DAC 'x' which is similar sounding, can play all the bit-rates and wont blow up tomorrow.

 

FOUR

And once you decide which dac you enjoy more, think about sending it in for upgrades later on.

 

I would also do #4

But my question - what modern DAC has the sonic quality of the SFD? I've been recently listening to some of the older DACs and enjoying the classic R2R sound. Does anything built recently provide a similar quality?

 

I was nearly in this same situation! I would leave SFD-2 stock, and start listening right away. I would then send in the SFD-1 to have the SE upgrade.

 

I agree with starting with option 4 and then upgrading your favorite. The only DAC I like better than the SFD-2 is the Wavedream. Get one of those too for good measure (if your budget allows).

 

I have only experience with the SFD-2 mk2, and Processor 3.

I sent in my SFD-2 for the SE+ upgrade, and to be honest looking back at what they upgraded, and what they charged I have some regrets. One small example, they installed new XLR and RCA connectors, replaced the original Kimber silver connection wire with their stock wire. The other upgrades I could have done, had I known what to replace.

I could not tell the difference before and after, then a year later my AES 21 module died. I finally got it back after six months as the module is no longer available, they are working on a unit to replace the module as they have seen many coming back due to age. They used a module from another device which they found on the used market, the jitterbug thing.

Anyway, if you the cash then send the SFD-2 in and make sure you review exactly what is being replaced as part of the upgrade.
In terms of a modern dac which comes close, it’s going to be a hard find. The td d1-core comes in close but not as expansive in stage and presentation, the Bricasti M1 creates this but then you compromise with a dryer sound.

Start listening! Good that you have a back up should one go down, I was devastated for weeks until I found a Processor 3 which was pure luck. It sounds great, definitely more refined yet unable to capture the rawness of the SFD.

Good luck with your decision process!

 

Thanks for all the replies. I think I'll do as @RestoredSparda said and try them both out. I still run a desktop machine in this chain, I may purchase a $30 soundcard with TOS out and try the Optical in for fun.

I I have the upgrade BOM ( from earlier in this thread) I may do the obvious upgrades myself at some point if I find myself loving the DAC.

 

I used to own the SFD-2 (with SE+ upgrades but performed local) and I feel that both Rockna Wavelight and Wavedream kind of sound similar. But I honestly feel that nothing beats my old SFD-2 with the way it portray midrange (a bit forward with great micro details and air) but my current Wavelight sounds more balanced when you look at the bigger picture (more neutral, more resolving, imaging is more accurate).

EDIT: I remember asking similar question last time and @ChaChaRealSmooth postings really helped a lot. I'll link it here.

 

I'm a little late to the party, but it's a good question and one I have been thinking about recently.

@ogodei - You've got the right idea, listen, enjoy, and upgrade yourself when you have time. I bought the parts more than 1 year ago and am finally going to upgrade.

That said, there is the question of what should replace the SFD when/if some unreplacable component fails. I had been hanging onto to a Metrum Onyx to fill that position and it's still a good dac, but I think I want to try for something better.

I have no aversion to a soldering gun, so DIY is on the table. A few years ago, I built a DIYINHK AD1862 dac on the recipe suggested by Hands and it's also a good dac, although I never did anything with it. Maybe that would do the trick. Actually, I think assembled is more accurate than built. All the hard stuff is done, just solder a few big parts and wire. Those dac boards and power supplies are still available, should someone be tempted.

I have also been thinking really hard about putting together a dac from The Well Audio (Andrea Mori) that should be much better performance, possibly kicking my Metrum Pavane out of my living room.

By the way, if you go looking for this, the names are confusing. There is Andrea Mori's "The Well Audio" and "Wells Audio" which has a very different approach.

Many of his dacs are sign magnitude, R2R dacs that uses his optically isolated, fifo buffer and his world class clocks. Should be fun if I go for it.

 

I too have been thinking about a DIY DAC, but more or less this one. It requires a bit more involvement as it is not just a board needing a PSU and outputs. The issue with some of these is sourcing the old R2R chips. And expect to pay more premium for a 'K' rated version over the standard J rated. These are also NOS, but with the right build and opamp I/V, could be fantastic.

 

Sounds like a good project. Those NOS R2R chips really benefit from modern, low noise power supplies and modern opamps in the I/V. I rolled quite a few opamps in the DIYINHK AD1862 and found that the choice of opamp makes a big difference in how it sounds.

Reading deeper in the link you sent, I have actually been looking at @grunf's tube I/V buffer stage from the same diyaudio thread. I might also be tempted by the cascade folded CEN I/V.

Have fun.