The Coronavirus Thread

the virus is still very new, with it's traits and tendencies still under analysis. people wanting to limit trips to places with tons of people seems perfectly rational to me, especially since that is exactly what the CDC and WHO are telling them to do.

I'd rather my family make 2 trips a month to the super market instead of our normal 2 or 3 a week, I don't know why anyone would consider that irrational. While I am certainly not a scientist or health professional, I lack any expertise in the field to discredit their recommendations.

 

At least you don't have to change clothes for the bee-keeping!

But seriously. Kudos to the health-care professionals on that front line. There are already stories that bring a tear to the eye, and I'm sure there are going to be more. And worse. Yesterday I read about a pulminary specialist in a UK hospital who is almost sure he has the virus but can't get himself tested. The British NHS is not testing its staff who are dealing with Covid-19 patients and/or other patients too.

 

Getting enough supplies is okay.

Hoarding so much that others cannot stock up is insane.

I grew up with going to the supermarket once a week because my parents were not very wealthy. A full boot/trunk and lifting bags and boxes followed. What I have seen the last few days with the toilet paper alone, nope insane.

Yesterday I witnessed a well-dressed idiot almost hoarding the pharmacy. He was on a quest to empty the shelves. The cashier had to stop him from hoarding. I was happy I got enough medicine in for April. Seriously, it was disgusting.

 

Because from everything that has happened in Hong Kong, and Singapore, two places that were hit first and are small enough to have good traceability between infected people, nobody has come down with an infection by making trips to the supermarket. And bear in mind, supermarkets over here are smaller and more crowded than anything you'll get in Western countries, especially the ones in the US that appear to be the size of a small English village.

Perhaps we have different definitions of "tons of people." Supermarkets are not "tons of people."

The Stereophonics playing to a crowd of 5,000 in Wales over the weekend, or 3,500 people dressing up as Smurfs in France, that's tons of people.

 

I fully respect your opinion on this. I don't think it is the government responsibly to provide a safety net to us citizens. I mean, they are already doing a terrible job with any safety net we have. : /

Now keep in mind about my viewpoint:

* I'm a Registered Libertarian
* I take a more strict reading of State and Federal Constitution and our laws
* I do believe that Social Security and Medicare and various government programs are more/less unconstitutional on a federal level (but I am not opposed if a State does this provided if voters approve this, considering that each State have their own constitutions and their own laws).
I do believe that the failure of the Federal Government for cutting back the entitlement programs/military is going to make the debt even worse. I also do believe that personal liberties are most likely going to be violated due to this for the sake of security.

I fully understand the majority of people here are going to have some serious disagreements with me on my viewpoint. And that's fine. On my end it is more about what I believe is the role of government and the separations of power.

Those who lean left should be pissed off about the Coronavirus House Bill that was recently passed. So this 100+ page bill was only made available to read about 40 minutes on 3/13 before a midnight House vote when 3/14 rolled around. Guess what, within that bill any employer who has more than 500+ employees are not required to provide any type of sick leave for their employees who became sick due to the virus. Remember, this bill was "negotiated" by Pelosi and Mnuchin and the Fed Gov with so many co-sponsors on this bill. Why passed the bill in a rush with no room for debate with major GOP/Dem support? We know government has been terrible for so many years, but this is a prime example of how bad this is. The House needs to debate this bill on the floor with amendments. That is how it should work. The sick leave part isn't going to benefit most Americans.

I don't think government should force businesses to offer anything (because this is a relationship between the employee and employer), but why aren't more liberal/leftest folks bitching about this? If there was a good reason to start bitching if I was a liberal/leftest, this is it.

Also, f**k bailouts. Yes, that includes the NYC MTA wanting to get federal funds for their bailout. Fun fact: If you live in NY State part of your properties taxes (which is a smaller amount of it) is going to the MTA Fund that only operate in NYC. Great, those who live Upstate or east on the Island are paying for NYC services they don't even use.

...Rant Over...

 

totally agree with you, that is why I said I understand basic stocking up to reduce trips seems perfectly normal to me. in know way was I condoning any sort of hoarding.

 

whether you are right or not on how it spreads is not something I am contending. however if people are being told to practice social distancing, cutting your trips to public places in half is hardly some big overreaction or any sort of permission slip for hysteria. I still do not understand why you feel cutting your grocery trips in half is a launching pad for hoarding and hysteria. that is social media/media in general and people misinterpreting some simple recommendations for limiting exposure.

 

I don't agree with a permanent UBI, IF there's no clear way of paying for it (Not really the same as Yang's Freedom Dividend since he does have a way of paying for it w/ VAT and taxing those mofos like Amazon), but this is an international/national crisis where people are expected stay home or recently laid off. A temporary UBI is really just a short-term relief for many working class Americans who are living through paycheck-by-paycheck. Shit, I mean if the government's going to bail out these large corporations and banks, I rather see that money used to directly help the tax-payers and average Americans. Most of us are probably going to use that money for groceries and pay rent, putting the money back into the economy anyway.

I can see why you would feel this way and the bill is far from perfect as you pointed out. But on the flip side, the longer they sit this one out and argue about this, it's seriously f'ing over a lot of Americans who have no source of income since the Corona and burning through their savings, hoping for something to change. I honestly think this issue goes beyond politics, which is why we're seeing bipartisan support on this emergency bill.

"When your house is on fire, you don't worry about the cost of water." you spray that shit down ...LOL

 

We will know for sure in about 2 weeks. If this continues to spread exponentially we are fucked. Two weeks ago the cases (in the US, but Canada will follow a similar trend) were in the 10s, a week ago they were in the 100s, this week they are in the 1000s, if next week they are in the 10,000s and the week after in the 100,000s, you will have a very serious problem. If it gets to the millions, then you are talking about needing 100s of thousands of ICU beds (10% or more). You have a little under 100,000 now.

https://www.sccm.org/Blog/March-2020/United-States-Resource-Availability-for-COVID-19

After that it's putting people in tents to die, like Italy. Note I'm not saying we need to wait two weeks to see if this is a crisis, it is. The time to act is now and hope it is not too late.

 

The effects of this will be very limited. This is a very short term solution to a very major problem. Personally I don't think we should increase our Federal Debt with this purposed UBI.

I have to disagree with you here. We should not use this situation as a way bypass the rules in the House. It is completely unacceptable to have a 100+ page bill be available then vote on it 30-40 minutes later. It is like saying this is good but the devil is in the details. People in the House (aka our elected officials) need to debate it. However, everyone is Rank and File to the turn of either the House Speaker or the House Minority Leader (aka do as I say).

I am not even a Left-wing person by any means, but if I was I would scream that this bill will not even cover most Americans on sick leave. I'll be more shock on the cost of everything to fund this. Look, the situation of the virus sucks donkey nuts, but the Gov needs to do this the right way on following procedure and open this up to debate. Unfortunately, both political sides prefer the closed door back-door deals than following the Constitution nowadays.

 

Just semi-good news. Seems most major retailers are opening their doors an hour early exclusively for seniors, disabled & pregnant women.

So this will somewhat alleviate the lines, rush & hoarding.

 

Any bets if people will try to pull a Monty Python pepper-pot impersonation?

 

I can't predict how small or big of an effect it will make macroscopically for sure, but it IS a lifeline for those that need it. I think in the perspective of those working class Americans, any amount of money will take some of the financial burden off their backs. From small business owners to minimum wage workers who have to worry about rent, student debt, credit card payment, etc. To me that doesn't seem small or limited. As much as I dislike Trump and his thugs, if he does push for something that helps everyone struggling in these times, I will give him credit for it.

Yes, you are right in that the crisis doesn't justify carelessness, but I was merely emphasizing that time is of the essence here for many of us. As I stated previously, people are burning through their savings just to survive with little to no income flow, so while we shouldn't rush the process, we should be effective in the use of time. I mean that's why we have the Senate as well right? They seem to be taking their sweet ass time making amendments and debating it out...

Also @YMO kudos to you for being Libertarian! I value your unique perspective on this from the standard left vs. right. I don't really have a party allegiance to left or right, (although I do lean more left than right haha) and try to look at it on based on specific policies

 

Some semblance of grocery normalcy is appearing. I bought the allowed 1 pack each of TP & PT today and also got everything else on my shopping list. Supply chain is improving. We just need to keep the limits in place for a while.

 

This experiment suggests that a substantial percentage of infected people don't develop symptoms at all:

https://www.ft.com/content/0dba7ea8-6713-11ea-800d-da70cff6e4d3

So it's either very aggressive testing or social distancing for everyone. Everything else might be futile.

(Edit: disable browser scripting to see the full text)

 

Being just outside the City of Atlanta, we have seen most of the same level of stupidly that others have posted about here with hoarding and such. But please don't misunderstand me, my wife and I are taking this ordeal very seriously as we all should. I have seen people saying that these reports are overblown and are politically motivated, fake news or whatever. This is a real state of emergency and people are dying. Please don't wait for someone you know (parent, friend etc) to die before giving this the seriously that it deserves. It keeps being reported that the melliniels are the key to successfully stopping the virus. I think, at least to some degree, that is true. The Melliniel generation is young, healthy and may feel that they are not vulnerable to getting sick. So they don't stay home and while possibly asymtomatic, may be unknowingly spreading the virus. Please just stay home unless you have an emergency or need groceries and use safe practices when you are out.

We have bought groceries and supplies in moderate amounts to leave some for others that might need them more than we do. Personally, I own a small computer repair business and have essentially been forced to shut down. I go door to door and do computer repair (16 years now). I don't have sick days or paid vacation time. My business has been hurting for over a year and the Corona virus may be the straw that breaks the camels back for me. But...you know, it's just business and part of life. I don't stress and worry much over it. I do my best each day to make my business sustainable. But if I'm not able to keep the boat afloat, then so be it. I'll just have to do something else.

I have been parsing down my collection of headphone gear over the past several months. Mostly because of medical issues. I sold my ETHER 2 several months ago but then was able to buy it back when I was able to start working again. Now, I'm in danger of having to sell them possibly for good depending on how bad our current crisis turns out to be. I would truly hate to see them go. They are my favorite flagship and I've built my system around them, recently putting the last piece into place with sweet silver cable from Norne audio. But I still have my trusty 650 that I will keep to the bitter end. They will have to pry the 650 from me before I turn loose...

My daughter, who recently graduated from college called me today to say that her wedding has been postponed. She was in tears. Yes, I know it's not the end of the world, but she's been planning the wedding for over a year and it's a major setback for her. Any father with a daughter that is married will understand what I'm going through here. I wish that I could do something to help her fix this, but there simply is nothing that can be done. Life will go on. A new wedding date will be set and eventually she will have her day. But this does weigh heavy on my mind.

After 911, we were all devastated. But once the healing started, some of us found that some good actually came from the darkness. We realized that sometimes we worry and expend energy on senseless things. We realized that it was more important to spend extra time with friends and family rather than at the office grinding for overtime or a promotion.

Hopefully when the chaos is over the this thing, there will some good to come out of it. Try to lend a hand to help if you can, particularly with anyone that you know who is older and truly in harms way. Offer to help someone get groceries who can't get out. Share some supplies or even just reach out to check on friends and neighbors to let them know you are there for them.

 

Oh yeah I understand it. I have plenty of friends who are part of the poor working class with high student loan debt. The disagreements I have with regard to what is the role of Government is deep. It isn't like I'm in la-la land, I see the appeal on why a lot of my friends are big Bernie fans (including my GF who is a Leftest and fully believes that we must kill the rich and help American society with programs).

The Senate was not suppose to be back until Sunday at the time the bill was passed. There was no need for the House to rush the passing on this bill, including a few points that should piss off both sides. Why we should be effective in the use of time when almost no one read the bill when it finally became available. For me it is like here's the notes for the test. The notes is about 50 pages long but the actual test is in 30 minutes. I know I am going on about stuff no one cares about since this is crazy times we are in right now, but the way things are handled on a Federal Level is nuts. We should even be scared that for the most part our Congressman/Women in the House don't read the actual bills they vote on. Then again, most Americans are ignorant on how things are suppose to work in Government in general. I still don't get the appeal on why everyone focus on the Executive Branch when there's two other branches with equal powers. Presidents are not king.

And thanks! I try to be respective since I know I am going to have pretty strong views that aren't the mainstream to a lot of people.

 

Anyone else gonna be there this year?

 

Should we start a separate page for CV19 memes?