The Last Jedi Thread (with Spoilers)

This. SJW's have no right to represent the groups they say they do. Just check on the youtube. It's sad and terrible. A bunch of egoistical narcissistical hysterical loud idiots. They are universally hated (as far as I know) by regular humans of any skin colour, sex, and orientation.

Same here.

The point was, the film makes 0 sense as a unit, makes 0 sense as a part of a sw universe, dismantles the sw universe in many ways, takes a shit on everything we loved, in order for rian to "be special" and please his sjw overlord.

Unnacceptable.

Force awakens was a good example of how to properly introduce diversity if that's what you want (and hey, why not).
Last jedi is an amazing example of how not to.

 

Thank you @BillOhio for laying the blame for TLJ's problems where it lies: with the choices and execution of the creative team. I personally disagree -- I loved much of what I saw in TLJ -- but we've already been over that.

@Ardacer : whining about SJW's ruining everything and outrage that the preferences of white men weren't catered to for the umpteenth time in popular entertainment makes you sound dumb, bigoted, or both. And please let's not talk about how perceived slights to white people is the real racism. Get off the YouTube and read a book.

 

I don't think that the issue was TLJ not catering to white dudes. I think that the issue was that TLJ force fed us it's preening self congratulatory and very hamfisted/cringey Social Awareness and did so at the expense of the plot making any sense. I mean, they put an Asian Female driver and a Black Guy in jail for a parking ticket and then had the two of them botch a mission which was irrelevant in the first place while Laura Dern did a terrible job as boss and Oscar Isaac did a horrible job as the lead pilot. Although in fairness, they also made caucasian male Hux out to be an idiot and Caucasian(?) female Phasma out to be irrelevant, so there's that.

Objecting to that isn't automatically racism, and objecting to being called a racist isn't automatically racism. I hated this movie and I have a black friend.

 

Also, I'd argue that calling any group's oppinion to be worthless is, at the very least, bigotry, be they white, asian, brown, purple, or translucent, and is not an acceptable behaviour from the top of lucasfilm. I'm not a bigot, and neither am I stupid. I'm also not calling you any of these terms, am I, now? Could you, please, elaborate just what I said specifically that made you think I'm a bigot? I'd be glad to continue this via PM's too, if you'd like, to not introduce so much offtopic. It's just my oppinion that they focused on SJW nonsense instead of good writing. You don't have to be so upset about it to automatically call me a bigot and stupid over it, do you?

 

That's hilarious. I guess I need to amend my post: I could watch her need to take a poop all day. I really enjoy Ridley. She seems totally committed and genuine all the time. I hope she gets to do more things.

I'm also bummed that Boyega is so constrained. These movies too crowded for their own good much of the time. If you haven't already, you should check out Boyega in Attack the Block.

I disagree on Driver. I think he is an inspired casting choice and makes Kylo feel real/natural. It's a very hard job to do the things he's doing physically and emotionally and make them believable. For me, he's killing it despite the flaws in the script/plot/etc.

Haven't seen Ex Machina but it's on my list. Isaac is great in everything I've seen him in. Unfortunately Poe, of all the new crew, is the most boring character.

 

I didn't care for Boyega in The Force Awakens but I don't know where Boyega's performance stopped and the bad dialogue began. I thought he did well in 'Detroit'.

 

They did a much better job of it with Mon Mothma.

 

I still cannot fathom how people are complaining about lack of representation and consideration for white males in a series that’s still 98% white and takes place in literally an entirely different galaxy.

 

@ultrabike when someone says that not caring about what white people think is "actually racist," then I am going to object. For what it's worth, I didn't say that @Ardacer was dumb/bigoted, I said that what he was saying makes him sound dumb/bigoted. It was a provocative and salty way of putting it I admit, but I think there's a difference.

@Ardacer : I agree that calling a group's opinion worthless is not cool. However, the opinions of white people, and white men in particular, shape and have shaped nearly all of what constitutes mainstream American entertainment. Rian Johnson is a white man. Most of cast and crew of TLJ are white men. The management team of Disney is almost entirely made up of white men. It's just silly to say that the opinions of white men were being ignored while making this movie.

I don't know you, but in my past experience, overuse of the "SJW" shorthand is a red flag for some shitty underlying views about other things. It's not always the case, but the lingo you use comes with baggage whether you are aware of it or not. I'm sorry if my comments were harsh.

@BillOhio : the issue for me is I don't see the connection between TLJs shitty writing/directing and who they chose to cast in the parts. When Hayden Christiansen sucks ass in two movies, Ewan McGregor and Natalie Portman suck ass in three, Samuel Jackson and Jimmy Smits suck ass in two and the prequels suck ass overall, people seem comfortable blaming the actors, the script, the director for doing a shitty job. The criticism of TLJ I am objecting to takes similar flaws in material and creative decision-making, but attributes it to social justice sympathies impairing creative judgement, actors of color being cast at the expense of imaginary, better ones. I think it's worth asking why that connection is being made?

 

Actors aren't responsible for a plot that panders to Social Awareness sensibilities instead of telling a good science-fantasy story. I don't think that anyone is calling Laura Dern, or John Boyega or Daisy Ridley etc. a shitty actress/actor, we're saying that Holdo was a shitty character that existed to pander. Same with Rose Tico and that the actual plot lines themselves were constructed to pander. I'm very Cool with Jyn Erso, Lando, Mon Mothma, Caspian Andor who were minorities or females and also strong characters.

The prequels were awful stories and dialogue.

I'm not sure that most of the major characters in TLJ were white dudes?

 

It is worth pointing out that the SW universe never had a shortage of fabulous women: Mara Jade, Ahsoka Tano, Asajj Ventress, Kreia, Hera Syndulla, Sabine Wren... Many aren't even human! All are more interesting than anyone in the ST (so far). The failure to put characters of such quality on big-screen releases seems to me an issue both of fecal writing and a failure of management to push for something better.

I think it's because the bosses fundamentally do not grok what appeals to fans about SW. They didn't grow up reading Zahn or arguing about whether the Yuzhan Vong plot sucked. I just can't imagine a real fan reading a draft of TLJ and then telling the author to do anything with it other than wipe his ass.

 

Well if they did, I'd agree. That'd be stupid as hell. But they're not really. Most people just hate it cause it makes no sense.

It's also stupid to be in charge of a product, then openly say you don't give a shit about what your customers think, and use racial and gender labels while doing it.

It's fine. You have your red flags and experiences as we all do. To be able to say something and to think properly, you will sometimes end up being offensive, that's just the way it is. I don't mind, that's why we talk about it.

"when someone says that not caring about what white people think is "actually racist," then I am going to object"

And why? I understand the historical aspect of why the statement is foolish, but I'm not sure it relates well to modern times. Anyone with any intelligence whatsoever in his head will be all out for equality of rights, opportunities and worth as a human being. I'd say, TODAY, that saying something like that is not ok. Maybe a 100 years ago it'd be stupid, and I agree. But still, as I said, it's very idiotic from economic point of view. Vast majority of their fans are white dudes. Not that it makes any difference, it doesn't, and shouldn't, but they actually spit in the very, very vast majority of their fanbase, multiple times, because they were trying to label fans as racists morons to avoid the real problems - they botched it. And in doing so, screwed it even further. In my oppinion, that is.

"lingo you use comes with baggage whether you are aware of it or not. I'm sorry if my comments were harsh."

More power to you. Glad we sorted it out.

" I think it's worth asking why that connection is being made?"

That's a really good point. I don't know if there is a CAUSAL connection, but probably yes, unfortunatelly. There sure is diversity in star wars that was not there before. It's irrelevant to the plot, but I'd say it's a good thing. I mean it. I actually like that aspect.

However, if you dig a bit deeper into it, it becomes apparent that top of lucasfilm are a bunch of incompetent idiots on many aspects, not alike to the likes of many SJW's. SJW's even go so far to get pissed about something like "men are in general taller than women". It's a weird trend, and I have an uneasy feeling that because of that trend and their personal feelings about that, for example, they decided to ruin Luke Skywalker, as a prototype male white hero, which is nonsensical thing to do!

Instead, we have Rose, being portrayed as a hero, and a Holdo, being portraid as a hero, while in reality they do amazingly stupid things. It just rubbs me the wrong way. I think it's on purpose. Too many pieces, too many places.

 

This sums up what bothers me.

"Holdo is a shitty character" = yes. The costume was garbage. The keeping secrets from Poe was garbage. Etc.

"that existed to pander" = ? Who is being pandered to? What did you see/read to lead you to this conclusion?