The Last Jedi Thread (with Spoilers)

I loved TLJ, I think it’s the second best SW film after Empire. Does that make me not a real Star Wars fan? JJ Abrams said he wished he could have directed TLJ after reading Johnson’s script. Does that make him not a real fan?

I loathe gatekeeping in fan communities. If my SW experience and opinions don’t line up with yours then I’m not a real fan? It’s insulting and only designed to shut people down. I call bullshit on that.

I also don’t get the argument that RJ isn’t a real SW fan. TLJ is littered with references big and small to the rest of the series, from explicit dialogue (Luke references Darth Sidious instead of saying Emperor Palpatine) to homages in the camera work and editing. TLJ is a total love letter to the rest of the SW series even as it forged ahead in new directions.

As for Rose and Finn on Canto Bight, I disagree that it was designed solely for social awareness at the expense of the plot. Canto Bight is the first time Finn takes action to help someone just because it’s the right thing to do. Up until that point, he’s about self preservation or protecting Rey. His whole arc in TLJ is learning to fight for something bigger than himself, to find his principles and stand by them. f**k, I love the Canto Bight sequence (even though the “Punch this town in its beautiful terrible face” line sticks out like a sore thumb).

 

I feel she existed to pander because she didn't keep those secrets from Poe for any reason that was sensible within the story. The only reason that I could see for her to keep that secret from Poe was so that Rian Johnson could put her in a position to be condescending towards Poe, in a very 'Girl Power' moment for not trusting her (never mind that she didn't deserve to be trusted as A) She's a dumbass for not ending Poe's mutiny by simply telling him the supposedly good escape plan and B) Her escape plan was stupid.)

On Rose Tico, I didn't see any purpose to anything she did in the movie so she read, to me, like a token.

 

Poe is a hotshot who got most of the Resistance fleet killed in the opening of the film. Why should she tell him the plan?

 

Because it would have ended an unnecessary mutiny.

 

Me neither, but I don't think anyone in here is making that complaint.

 

There's too much to unpack in this statement, even for a triggered SJW like me.

 

@Merrick

I refuse to believe that Luke Skywalker, a being that believed he could turn Darth Vader in front of Darth Sidious, back to light, and pull it off, a being of pure optimism and good, suddenly decided, oh well, lemme kill my nephew, he's to DARK, lol, better drink some of that alien nipple juice

 

@Merrick: We'll have to agree to disagree. From my perspective, SW is about back story and universe-building. That universe should be consistent and have some degree of sensible continuity. TFA+TLJ went for quickies and throw-away characters instead (prime examples: Phasma and Snoke). The ST universe makes very little sense in the context of the existing material, even excluding the EU, unless the writers merely wish to recycle the same antagonists and tropes which worked in the OT.

If referring to an old character by one name rather than another and copying some camera work is all it takes for TLJ to maintain SW consistency and connection for you, then excellent! I'm delighted that you enjoyed the movie.

 

It's not that Poe became a different character to me, it's that the whole thing became a different franchise. One that I don't see as being well conceived or written or having much to do with, or even respect for, the Original Star Wars movies.

 

That's the best defense of Canto Bight that I've heard but I personally still hated that sequence just because I hated the location, the slapstick humor of the sequence and the CGI. I said before that that horse-cat race felt more like Harry Potter visually than Star Wars. If there's merit to what you're saying regarding Fin's character, a better writer/director, to me,would have found a better way to accomplish the same thing without taking a lot of us completely out of the movie and devoting so much of the movie to doing so.

 

Finn's sacrifice would suffice.

BUT NO.

We win by protecting what we looooooveeeee

 

Using our last opportunity to see Luke Skywalker in action to have him tell Rey that the Jedi were fools doesn't feel like a love letter to me, it feels like an FU that I'm not going to support. I'm historically a midnight showing multiple viewing buy the art of book and buy the bluray level of fan who has completely lost interest in participating in movies being made by people who would have Luke tell us that the Jedi were fools, along with all of the other complaints of this film that I've rambled on about in the past.

When references to the original Star Wars movies are there but the spirit of those movies is not, the references come across to many of us a contrived and cheap.

 

Poe isn’t a character in TFA. He gets caught and seemingly dies, then show some up again and blows up Starkiller base. The reason he feels different from TFA to TLJ is that Johnson had to actually give him characteristics to flesh him out.

Honestly a lot of the criticisms of TLJ are really criticisms of the shortcomings of TFA. Abrams loves his endless mystery boxes but never bothers to fill them with anything meaningful. It was Abrams who wrote Luke into exile, and Johnson had to figure out a plausible reason that Luke would do that. Abrams shortchanged Poe and Finn by not fully fleshing them out. Johnson had to correct for that. Abrams introduced a boring Palpatine stand in and Johnson rightfully dispatched him in a way that grew Kylo Ren’s character.

And all these films feel very Star Wars to me. The ST feels like it’s more of a piece with the OT than the prequels ever did.

 

But Luke was wrong, and he grew and learned and changed his mind and saved the day. He literally says he will not be the last Jedi. The movie made the argument for why the Jedi are necessary, even when they fail.

 

what does ST stand for?

 

Sequel Trilogy