The Two Channel Advice Thread

Discussion in 'Advice Threads' started by purr1n, Nov 10, 2016.

  1. Riotvan

    Riotvan Got lost for three weeks at Delft City Hall

    Friend
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2015
    Likes Received:
    2,599
    Dislikes Received:
    6
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    The Netherlands
    Spendor classic series might be up your alley as is the a series mentioned above. The D series probably isn't.

    You mentioned an interest in Quested. They are neutral and a bit dark but might not be lush enough in the mids, it really depends on the upstream gear. Never harsh though. Think tube pre and or some transformers somewhere in the signal path for maximum effect.

    I can easily hear changes in cables on mine but i still insist on making my own.
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2020
    EagleWings, rlow and zonto like this.
  2. zonto

    zonto Friend

    Friend
    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2015
    Likes Received:
    3,891
    Dislikes Received:
    9
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Boston, MA
    I wouldn't describe the Spendor D7's mids as euphonic. I wasn't a fan of the D7 during my dealer demo, which admittedly could have been in part due to positioning.

    Of the speakers I've demoed semi-recently (impressions: one, two), I'd say the most "euphonic" mids were probably from the Dalis (proprietary midrange drivers with pulp cones) and the Aerial Acoustics (SB Acoustics midrange driver with papyrus blend cone). Dali wasn't my cup of tea due to the excess high frequency energy, but the midrange sound and detail was great. My sample size is admittedly small compared to some here.

    Posted right before I clicked "Post Reply". ;)
     
    nishan99, Priidik, EagleWings and 2 others like this.
  3. rlow

    rlow A happy woofer

    Friend
    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2017
    Likes Received:
    4,907
    Dislikes Received:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Canada
    Yeah the D series I understand are more on the analytical side than the A series, and the Classic series more like traditional BBC. D series I assume would be outside his price range so I didn’t mention it.
     
    zonto, EagleWings and Riotvan like this.
  4. Riotvan

    Riotvan Got lost for three weeks at Delft City Hall

    Friend
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2015
    Likes Received:
    2,599
    Dislikes Received:
    6
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    The Netherlands
    I lust after a pair of Classic 100 or 200's. They are quite pricey though. But they have made this line going back decades so they're probably available used but finding them is the hard part.
     
    rlow likes this.
  5. yotacowboy

    yotacowboy McRibs Kind of Guy

    Friend
    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2016
    Likes Received:
    4,008
    Dislikes Received:
    12
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    NOVA
    Home Page:
    What about Audio Note? They've got a dealer in Mumbai.
     
    EagleWings and rlow like this.
  6. Melvillian

    Melvillian Friend

    Friend
    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2017
    Likes Received:
    1,213
    Dislikes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    My Harbeths can sound very clear and dynamic. They’re just difficult to get just right and can be boxy and shouty if paired with the wrong source and amp. I don’t agree with some of the YouTube reviewers out there saying they’re easy speakers to pair with.

    @RobS My speakers don’t lack in dynamics. That’s not true.
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2020
    Priidik, EagleWings, jayeshrc and 3 others like this.
  7. PTS

    PTS Friend

    Friend
    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2016
    Likes Received:
    987
    Dislikes Received:
    8
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA
    I've heard @Melvillian's Harbeths, and concur that they're in-your-face with the right system synergy. He played Run The Jewels, and a hip hop track has never sounded so immediate and exciting to me.
     
    ohmaigulay and rlow like this.
  8. EagleWings

    EagleWings Friend

    Friend
    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2017
    Likes Received:
    963
    Dislikes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    India
    Thanks everyone.

    @sacredgates , I have heard great things about PMCs, but I hear they can be a little bright. How would you describe PMC 25.22i's midrange and treble? I'm looking for full-bodied mids and smooth treble.

    @rlow , Spendor's A and Classic series are very high on my list. The bigger Classic ones are the ones I am interested in, but once again are out of my budget.

    @Riotvan , thanks for letting me know about the Questeds. I would want to add a pre sooner or later to my chain. I could make it a tube pre.

    @yotacowboy , I haven't looked much into the Audionote speakers yet. I'll check these out too.
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2020
    Riotvan and rlow like this.
  9. sacredgates

    sacredgates Audio-Technica's high priest

    Contributor
    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2015
    Likes Received:
    405
    Dislikes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Black Forest Germany
    Home Page:
    Tweeter and crossover were tweeked in the latest series, and treble is smoother and taken a bit back compared to their older models; so I don´t think there would be a problem there with the right choice of source/amp. Your wish for full-bodied mids could be more difficult to fulfill.
    In this price range you really should audition yourself after narrowing down possibilities.
     
    EagleWings likes this.
  10. batriq

    batriq Probably has made you smarter

    Friend
    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2015
    Likes Received:
    771
    Dislikes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Hi folks, I'd love your advice on the following. The reason I wouldn't just go ahead and try it is that it's a lot of work and I'd like to hear your thoughts on whether it's worth it.

    My wife inherited a pair of Tannoy GRF corner speakers. Below are pictures of the actual speakers:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    The speakers are currently sitting in storage (by themselves costing me $48/month). Bringing them home requires renting a van, hiring someone to help move them, and setting them up.

    These would be replacing a pair of Zu Union speakers (10.3" coax drivers) that I've had for 8 years. I know people either love or hate Zu's. I agree they are very finicky to set up, but once you have them canted, toed-in, and placed just right, they sound great (as you can imagine, over the past 8 years, I gradually got that down).

    Here's my setup:
    TT --> Freya S
    Digital sources --> Yggdrasil --> Freya S
    Freya S --> PSA 15" sub (S1512)
    Freya S --> 311B/300B amp --> Zu's

    The amp has both 8ohm and 16ohm taps (the Zu's are 8ohm and Tannoys are 15ohm). I believe the Tannoys are 16" drivers (@purr1n do you know much about these drivers?) I know that the speakers work since I hooked up an amp to them before we moved them. I don't know what shape the crossovers are in (is that even something to worry about?) There is enough room for them in the corner of the room. The sub currently lives in the corner but since it is sealed, it's easy to move and I would need to re-tune it anyway.

    Thoughts?
     
  11. k4rstar

    k4rstar Done his time

    Friend BWC
    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2016
    Likes Received:
    4,723
    Dislikes Received:
    90
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    Toronto, Canada
    @batriq judging from the cone these are 15" Monitor Golds, the earlier and preferred production with rope surrounds that do not rot. In good condition with the original crossovers the drivers themselves are worth $2200-2400 USD. The cabinets are special as high quality cabinets are necessary to get these drivers to perform as they should and most reproduction cabinets, as well as smaller factory cabinets that made their way to North America, suck. The York GRF corner cabs you have are highly desirable by collectors. I would say they are worth another $2000-2500 USD as a package with the drivers, so you could get $5000 easily for this speaker if you decided to sell it.

    In my opinion these are much better speakers than Zu's but I am biased to all things vintage :) the 15 inch MG's are not really for SET amplification though many people use them this way. I think they really want 15 to 35 push-pull watts to shine. Something like the OG Radford STA25 would be an ideal partner. you might still really like them with your existing setup though! if you have two good corners I highly doubt you would want to keep the sub for music - the 15" in corner cabs can make real bass.

    you can see photos of inside the crossover section here although this is a later production unit than yours by several years http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/tannoyMG15.htm. ideally leave the crossover as-is, especially if you want to sell. yes there may be an electrolytic in there, it's not the end of the world.

    you may read more about all things Tannoy here https://www.hilberink.nl/speaker.htm

    my advice if you have the space is to try them, it is worth the effort.
     
    skem, Priidik, allegro and 5 others like this.
  12. purr1n

    purr1n Finding his inner redneck

    Staff Member Friend BWC
    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2015
    Likes Received:
    65,620
    Dislikes Received:
    108
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Antarctica
    You scored. Bring a portable source and a battery powered T-amp like this to the storage facility to make sure its working. Can't beat rear loaded from a big woofer and concentric HF driver. This would be like the Zu grown up or the OG version of it. Worse case is that you replace any broken or out of spec components (won't be cheap). Or if you don't like them sell them. The construction is pretty insane.
     
  13. dBel84

    dBel84 Friend

    Friend
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2015
    Likes Received:
    1,776
    Dislikes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Agreed, if I could own any speaker, it would be these grand old Tannoy's. Put some serious class A power in front of them and don't ever look back.
     
    bixby and batriq like this.
  14. batriq

    batriq Probably has made you smarter

    Friend
    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2015
    Likes Received:
    771
    Dislikes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Thank you so much @k4rstar @purr1n and @dBel84 for all the advice, encouragement, and info! I knew there were variations in drivers (red/silver/gold) and cabinets, but didn't know these are the gold drivers, or the real-deal cabinets. My wife says she believes her dad had them shipped from England. I'll test them again, and schedule a move sometime this month. I'll let you all know how it goes once I set them up.
     
  15. Greg121986

    Greg121986 Facebook Friend

    Contributor
    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2016
    Likes Received:
    213
    Dislikes Received:
    8
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Location:
    Metro Detroit, MI
    I would like some rational advice from the technical and experienced folks here regarding a noisy stereo preamp. I've been going back and forth for awhile and have reached a point of decision paralysis. I have an uncomfortable amount of "hiss" coming from my tweeter and mid-range driver of my speakers. It's mostly in the tweeter of course. I have narrowed the source down to the preamp. If I plug my power amp directly to my Holo Spring DAC and let the system idle, my ears guess that the noise is cut by much more than 50%. I know electronics are inherently noisy and this is perceived as normal, but this seems louder than it should be from the preamp. If the ambient noise of my room goes down, I can hear it a little bit from my listening chair.

    I was going to get a Shunyata Delta D6, but I am skeptical as to the efficacy of this device to actually resolve or improve this noise problem. Is preamp noise exacerbated by exterior power line interference? Their technical spec for noise suppression is Input to Output (100 kHz – 30 MHz): > 40 dB reduction. I cannot grasp how these frequencies would somehow cause an audible noise to emanate through my speakers. I live in an old, poorly built, and very likely poorly grounded townhouse so I am sharing power with several other unit's appliances, A/C units, LED lights, etc. I have no doubts that the power lines have all sorts of garbage on them. But how can I be sure that this is actually the cause of my issue? I borrowed a buddy's Furman Elite-15 PFi which claims to have some sort of "power filtering" ability, but it has made no difference. I am unable to modify the townhouse or any of its infrastructure (rental) so I really can only apply a band aid to whatever may be causing me grief.

    I ordered some RCA grounding caps just for S&Gs but I don't expect any major effect. I might end up with lower efficiency speakers in the future so I am also open to just dealing with this until I make that change. Is there no cure for this type of system noise?

    System Components:
    Focal Electra 1028 Be
    Audia Flight FLS1 preamp
    Audia Flight FLS4 poweramp
    Shunyata Venom PS8 power strip, Venom cable to the wall, Venom Defender pretend noise suppressor into the power strip, IFI pretend noise suppressor into the wall. None of this is really effective, I just wanted a nice power strip to plug my stuff into.
    Holo Audio Spring KTE
    Singxer SU-1 KTE
    Wireworld Silver Starlight 8 XLR interconnects
    Wireworld Equinox 7 speaker cables
    Wireworld Electra 7 power cables - These are at least shielded so they should be doing something
    Wireworld Stratus 7 power cables
     
  16. purr1n

    purr1n Finding his inner redneck

    Staff Member Friend BWC
    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2015
    Likes Received:
    65,620
    Dislikes Received:
    108
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Antarctica
    Since you had no problems directly from the Holo DAC, this doesn't sound like a grounding or RF issue. It sounds like a gain issue.

    Does the FLS1 offer you the ability to tweak the gain for each input? The gain for the FLS1 can max out near +15db from the preamp. The FLS4 power amp also a decent amount of gain at 29db. Combine 15+29db of gain with 91-92db sensitivity Focals and that will result in noise or hiss.

    Can you hear the hiss from your listening position? If not then don't worry about it. Hiss from a tweeter is normal from a foot away.

    Otherwise tweak the gain on the FLS1 to -6db on that input to see if that will help.
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2020
    monacelli, Greg121986, bixby and 2 others like this.
  17. Greg121986

    Greg121986 Facebook Friend

    Contributor
    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2016
    Likes Received:
    213
    Dislikes Received:
    8
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Location:
    Metro Detroit, MI
    I did reduce the FLS1 gain to -6dB and this mitigated the noise a bit. It had always been 0dB before this. I can still hear it from my seat if I really pay attention and if my house is very quiet. If this is the best solution I am fine to live with it. I appreciate the presentation of maths because there is a clear explanation for all of this which is completely reasonable. I am looking to rationalize my approach to resolving the problem before allowing myself to get out of control. Self control is not what I'm good at.

     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2020
    zonto likes this.
  18. purr1n

    purr1n Finding his inner redneck

    Staff Member Friend BWC
    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2015
    Likes Received:
    65,620
    Dislikes Received:
    108
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Antarctica
    Yeah, don't resort to power filters or magic stones whenever there is a logical explanation.
     
    bixby likes this.
  19. jayeshrc

    jayeshrc Resident Crash Test Dummy

    Friend
    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2015
    Likes Received:
    574
    Dislikes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    Eindhoven
    I don't know where to post this but I recently decided to replace my cheap interconnects with DIY ones using Neutrik connectors and canare star quad cable (I keep forgetting the names, I did post them on a profile post) and there's a huuuge difference! For one, I always had a light buzzing/hum for some reason between the saga and any amp that I have used so I specifically bought the star quad cable to try and get rid of that, and it worked wonders! I soldered the ground and shield together on the source side and not on the other end to maximize interference rejection.

    The second thing is that the treble has completely opened up! The sheer amount of increase in detail is crazy. It's literally a complete transformation that I was not expecting because I never believed in cables. I spent something like 80-90€ and made 3 cables with a nice cable sleeve and what not, which is actually mind blowing
     
  20. hifiandrun

    hifiandrun Almost "Made"

    Contributor
    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2016
    Likes Received:
    280
    Dislikes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Boston
    The new-to-me Dynaudio Special Forty sound - as compared to KEF LS50.

    Admins suggested me to post here rather than the long chain of short status on my profile page. I don't have a firm impression to share yet. thus this is just an initial impression.

    TL;DR - They are my first Dynaudio speakers, interesting sound signatures that I have not experienced before. Fantastic and huge sound stage and great instrument positioning and separations on the stage - better than my LS50s. sweet and airy highs, great on guitars and pianos. a little dull and unnatural boldness mid-range on human voice, but the same time a little shouty. Maybe break-in will improve this?

    1. Why the S40s and the purchasing. I always wanted to try a pair of Dynaudio. The woofer in the S40 is in line with their classical design which the voice coil is outside of the magnet thus the huge dust cover. I think that this had been the reason Dynaudio was known for its deep bass extension in their bookshelves. Plus, many years ago, a school of people think that the polymer cone sounds the best (think of Spendor models), compared to other materials. I also liked the use of first-order crossover design. Unfortunately, it seems that the Dynaudio is moving away from the unique design and going back to the most common type - voice coil inside the magnet. They are also moving to the second-order crossovers for the new confidence 20 and contour 20. I assumed that this would result in a more modern Hi-Fi sound, high resolution, pin-point imaging, etc. Another example of high-order crossover is the Thiel speakers - 4th order crossovers - super spooky imaging but they make me tired quickly as my brain had to work very hard all the time to catch up the sound. I am fine to compromise on a bit of details and imaging for a relaxed and cohesive sound of 1st order x-over - its just me. I felt that the S40 maybe the last model of their 40 years' traditional design thus I jumped onto the nostalgia wagon.

    The other reason was that I just moved from a 7.5-feet high apartment to a larger 8.5-feet high apartment (20 x 15 feet). My KEF LS50 became a bit lean sounding with no bass as all. The highs of LS50s also became brighter compared to my old place thus I know I would need some acoustic treatment once I fully settled in.

    My S40 is a used pair. The original owner didn't want to say too much about those speakers. He had a pair of LS50s too and he said that the S40 would blow the 1/2 MSRP LS50 away, which I didn't feel the same way myself. It seems to me that he briefly listened to the S40s in his 2nd system in basement and just wanted to move on. Thus, I don't know how far those S40 had been at in break-in.

    2. My set up.

    I don't have as much experiences as other members here. But I'd like to explain a bit to provide enough context. Although many people have said that the speakers have more influences in final sound than the upstream components, I am picky on DACs much more than the speakers. I am ok for speakers to sound different, for example, a little lean/analytical or lack of bass. But I cannot get into the music if I don't have the right DAC in the system. So far the best types worked for me are Schiit multi bits and alike. I am using the Gungnir MB A1 to original Saga then to a homebrew RCA-XLR Cinemag CMLI15 transformer box output to 2 x Aegirs dual mono. Kimber 8TC speaker cables. The CineMag transformers are interesting (will report), but I will try JBL nano patch later to make sure the lack of bass was not related to these line-level iso-formers.

    3. Sound of the Dynaudio Special 40

    The first night I thought I made a stupid purchase. The bass, just as @rlow said on my profile page, except S40 had a bit deeper bass but still not as deep as I expected, I didn't feel anything else significantly better than my LS50s. Yesterday, the second day, was a surprise as I started to try speaker placement. I did not expect those are so tricky with positioning. Both my previous B&W N805, N803 and the LS50 were not as picky as Dyna S40 on placement. LS50 have been the least demanding on placement. With the Dyna S40, it was the first time which I used tape measures and move them around at steps of 1-2 inch a time. The best placement I found so far was 2.9 ft to the rear wall from the front baffle, 4.5 feet from side walls, 5.8 feet apart. I was sitting 6.5 feet away from the speakers. But roughly close to the center of the room which may be a tricky spot for bass.

    When in the right spots, the speakers display a wide and deep sound stage. I felt that this was the biggest strength of these speakers over all the others I have used. Some review says that they are laid back as the sound stage is behind the speaker plane. But to me the stage was just a bit behind the front baffle of the speakers. The foot steps waking cross the stage were very even at the beginning of the Michael Jackson's song "Thriller". However, the female vocal moving toward the listener in Lou Reed's "Walk On the Wild Side" was less prominent than the LS50s and on-par with N803 to my memory.

    The S40 were also kind of smooth (omit a bit above ~ 13 - 15k Hz) and sweet in the upper-highs, sounding "airy". The details were very good, more relaxed and open compared to the LS50s. The guitar sounded engaging and charming, very real too. However, the LS50 was better at reveal plankton.

    The biggest challenge I have had now has been the unbalanced highs and mids. It was the prominence of the lower-highs (correct me if wrong), the frequency which related to human voice, but hollow (not as full bodied and engaging) at the mid-range. It is hard to describe this - both female and male voice were a bit too bold compared to the LS50s. But at the same time, the voice sounded bright and shouty. The LS50 also became a bit shouty in my new place too, but to a lesser degree. I am thinking to add some acoustic panels on the side walls and I felt more break-in would smooth this out. I felt it hadn't fully break-in because I could hear many good traits, but at the same time they were still sound a bit grainy and fuzzy. I felt that it took 200-300 hours to fully break-in for my new LS50.

    Well, I only had them for two days. Hadn't my earlier "status" post drawn quick attention and kind advice from several experienced SBAFs , I was planning to report when I've had more time with the S40s. Happy listening.
     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2020
    Pocomo, bixby, Priidik and 9 others like this.

Share This Page