Turntable advice

Remember, this is all a dance with everything else in the chain. Phono cable, cartridge, phono section, followed by the preamp/headphone amp or integrated amp into your choice of speaker/headphone etc.

You are the chef so design to your own listening taste. THAT is the most important thing.

 

Hey guys! I have a deal on a Rega RP-40 (with the rega PSU) and a random tube phono pre amp (Dynavox TPR-2) for about 650usd. Is this an alright deal to enter the vinyl nutjob world?

 

Fellow nut jobs... I'm wondering some questions that I think would also be beneficial info for other novices.

- With regards to tone arms, How about some general advice... Specifically, how does tonearm length, material, shape, and weight affect the sound? I suspect the tonearm and cartridge need to be suited for each other, but how exactly does this come into play?

- Do certain tables work better with certain cartridges, or will a cartridge upgrade always sound better, regardless of plinth/etc? My understanding is that a cheap table will still sound better with an upgraded cart, however the cheaper tables may be degrading the overall sound regardless.

- How crucial is the plinth construction? I've seen marble, acryl, different types of wood, metal etc. Are there any kinds of crazy things we should know? Or are we just supposed to understand that the plinth is integral to the overall sound quality of the table, and perhaps aesthetic appeal?

Sorry if these are stupid questions, they've just been on my mind, as my personal analog path has progressed. Just for the sake of where I am at, here is some info... I originally bought an AT-120LP which had a fairly muddy/warm presentation. I pulled the built in phono and started using cheap stages recommended by others which improved the sound.

Then I upgraded to the Pro-Ject 2Xpression acryl, which was around $1000 or so. With the Ortofon 2M Bronze, it sounds much more resolving, but still mostly just glimpses of being wonderful.

I've now set a bigger budget for an upgraded table, and the F-117 stage is incoming. I'm debating a nice, used VPI in the future...

 

Anyone have any opinions the OG square motor Well Tempered Record Player?

 

Anyone have any opinions on the Ortofon Cadenza line of carts? VPI seems to love the Cadenza Bronze and the price seems to be quite attractive for a near-TOTL MC.

 

I have the opportunity to get a barely used Pro-Ject Xtension 9 Evolution with Ortofon 2M Black for a good price. Does anyone have any opinions on the higher end Pro-Ject stuff? I know the 9cc arm gets a fair amount of praise but I'm still concerned with motor noise etc.

 

I'm looking for a turntable in the $500-1100 range, and I think I'm actually going to go for a new one, as I'm new to all this and having all new working parts in the box appeals to me, and I can slowly learn to tinker with everything over time. I'm looking at the usual suspects from Rega, Pro-Ject and maybe Music Hall, but that's not my question.

Simply, do new turntables ever go on sale in the US? It seems all the Rega's and Pro-Jects are the exact same price from every dealer, with some product pages even stating promotions are not eligible on them. This looks like it may be a strict dealer pricing thing (like many headphones) and if I'm wasting my time searching for a deal, I may as well buy soon?

 

Not sure about the US, but I know in Canada that most of our shops will only advertise for MSRP... when you go into the shop to purchase, they will often bundle gear together to save you from paying full MSRP. I've also found that depending on the sales person, some are willing to take a decent amount off if you're courteous. Many times, they mention they're unable to advertise any lower than MSRP, but who knows.

Any reason why you wouldn't want to go used? Some dealers will sell trade-ins for a fairly decent price... if your aversion is to dealing with a classified ad. If I did it again, I'd probably just buy used from the start, but it is a personal decision for sure.

 

No real aversion to buying used other than the fact that I'm a vinyl noob (only have a LP60 that was a gift, been using it only as a novelty) and I don't know how to do any setup, cartridge installing, arm balancing...etc. Figured new with a warranty, pre-installed cart, etc would be easiest right off the bat, then I could learn to tinker and upgrade components as I go. I agree deals can be had used, but with me not really know what I'm doing with a lot of these things, it seems safest to stick with new (or open box or something like that)

Thanks for the advice, I don't have a physical store to go to around me, but will continue to keep an eye out for a little longer before pulling the trigger

 

Dealer agreements often indicate that you cannot advertise anything that would drop the product below MSRP, even with coupons. However I get different information from different dealer representatives on whether or not it is even permissible to discount a product. Some products have lower margins than others so if I do discount I might only be breaking even / making minimum wage or worse, after expenses.

So in addition to speaking in-person, you can also email or call a place to ask about a discount. Also, I'm more likely to give a discount to someone I have a relationship with, is purchasing more stuff, or I am confident is interested in a purchase and not just fishing around for the lowest price. Just keep in mind I am also selling my support and service (e.g. helping with setup, returns, repairs, exchanges, product advice even on gear I don't carry, etc.) and not just the physical product. I may have spent dozens of hours with people auditioning something who then didn't purchase anything, or dozens of hours answering questions and providing advice, and I have to make that up with the sales I do have.

 

@PoochZag give Sound Stage Direct a call, and see what they have used. They get a lot of trade ins, and will be able to make sure the table is set up before it goes out the door. They made buying my used VPI Classic a breeze. Don't bother with email, just call and ask for Seth or Jay.

 

Only 6 months in and I think I am out growing my Project Debut Carbon and would like some sage advice at what tables i should be looking at. Realistically I can spend in the $1,500 - $2,000 range not including the cart. Tables that have caught my interest are VPI Scout, Clear Audio Concept, and Project Xtensions. I will likely buy used, and have been trolling Audiogon + eBay to get a sense of what things cost.

First question - am I looking at the right tables? Any that I should be looking at and am missing?

Next - Is the VPI Scout a decent table? I see them used for about half of what they sell for new, not usually a good sign. I know the VPI Classic line is the SBAF fav. around here, should I just wait and try for one of these?

Thanks in advance for the help!

 

^--- I'm in the same boat and thinking of upgrading along the same lines as @JoshMorr

Seems the Classic series tables go for ~$2-4K+ used, and most without cartridges. Just playing the waiting and watching game for now myself.

 

I've seen a couple classic 2's go for $2,500 or so and that would pretty much be the way top of my budget if I stretched and told fibs to my wife. I would be following in @JK47's footsteps again if I went classic 2 (I bought his clamp and LPS when he was selling his Debut Carbon). Is this the way to go Alek?

@Mikoss - you thinking VPI Classic too?

 

VPI Classic series seems to have great reviews. Unsure about TNT, Scout, Prime, HW-19, etc. Also unsure if all would benefit from the SDS controller, or if it's unnecessary for some. (I've read listings that said something about the speed controller being built into some models?)

 

Geez, I don't know if the VPI Classic is the way to go, but I do enjoy my Classic 1 immensely. I don't have the VTA on the fly adjustment of the Classic 2 ( I can change my Classic 1 VTA fairly quickly if I feel the need). The rock solid foundation of the Classic series and the ability to dial in the cartridge to a finer degree, make a difference in the listening experience compared to the Pro-Ject Carbon I had. It's hard to do a direct comparison between the two because I went from an Ortofon 2M Blue MM cart (feeding a Franken TC-750) to a modded Denon DL-103 MC cart (originally feeding a Franken TC-750 + SUT, now feeding a RSA F-117 Nighthawk).

It's fascinating to me, to be able to change the VTA on a LP that sounds somewhat flat and lifeless, to something open and alive within 20 seconds. If I set my VTA for a 180 gram LP, it will usually sound ever so slightly off when I play a regular or thinner LP. Some brighter recordings sound better toned down by changing the VTA, and the opposite goes for dull recordings. For the most part I set the VTA with a medium thickness record and just enjoy. I do on occasion feel adventurous, and tinker...

 

I've never experienced VTA adjustment on the fly, but I think that is a great point @JK47... I have noticed that my Pro-Ject table seems to sound better with 180g records, and I wonder if it was set up accordingly.

Another point I'd be interested in hearing opinions on are 45's... Does the same recording on 45 vs 33 retain a higher fidelity due to the speed? From everything I've read, it should, but my personal experience is somewhat limited. I'm a sucker for researching like a maniac and making my purchases based on the opinions of many, and it seems to me that the quality of a 45 could potentially be better.

As for the Classic turntables, my undereducated opinion is that VPI does certain things properly. These things tend to be important to me personally, so I'm inclined to go that route. There are others who probably do the same, I just personally struggle to form an understanding of the differences and similarities without auditioning myself.

I do believe we have some sage advice from others here, and I'm happy to be a part!