Verum : a wonnabe-a-brand planar headphones

Discussion in 'Product Announcements' started by Garuspik, May 7, 2018.

  1. FallingObjects

    FallingObjects Pay It Forward

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    The fact that we're not stringing him up by his toes right now is a pretty good sign overall, in my opinion at least.


    edit: Then again, that seems to happen to people who are well liked here, too, on occasion.
     
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    Last edited: May 8, 2018
  2. Friday

    Friday Friend

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    So how efficient are these cans? Do we need HE-6 level amplification to drive them properly?
     
  3. Garuspik

    Garuspik Tovarisch Ukrainian Terminator MOT - Verum

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    100 units is exactly what I need for a start. Massdrop is a service for already existing product.

    I don't have a price closer to 500$ cause my main goal is not to earn money at once from the first batch, but to produce them as much as I can to have big amount of satisfied customers.

    I disagree. Ukraine is a unique country for such projects. In fact maybe it's the only country where such project is possible. It's in the same time has cheap labour and experienced technicians and equipment from the USSR past. Still not everything is stolen and not everybody moved to other countries. But maybe soon that'll happen ;(

    Thanks! Maybe in future we'll see Audio Zenith based on Verum? Спасибо за пожелания!

    They are rather efficient and even play decent from Iphone. Verum has only 8 ohms but I don't consider that to be a problem. I can make it 20-30 ohm easily but in such a case I need to make more narrow traces. I've heard many times that some Hifiman and many Audeze models die because of breakage of traces on membrane. The solution is to make wide traces. Simple and effective, doesn't affect sound quality. 8 ohm doesn't mean your amp will go to clipping right from the start.
     
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  4. Taverius

    Taverius Smells like sausages

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    I would say that 8 is a hair low what with many set transformer amps usually having zout of around 4?

    Kind of getting into "are they too close" territory.

    But probably kilobuck amps is not the the kind of source you're optimising for :p though I've also seen recent DAPs with a zout of 8, so I'd personally feel more comfortable with a 12~16 like the Aeons.
     
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  5. Garuspik

    Garuspik Tovarisch Ukrainian Terminator MOT - Verum

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    One of the things I don't understand in head-fi is why people even consider worh buying amps with Z out of 4 ohms.

    I understand about what are you talking about, but they're optimized for any good engineered amp. Amp with Z out of 8 ohms can't be considered to be good engineered from my not_humble opinion :punk: Sure I recommend to use amps with Zout less then 0.5 ohm.
    Best companion for low Z headphones and hard-to-drive planars (not my case!) i've ever listened to also built in Ukraine. And that's not a advertisement.http://www.fluxlab-acoustics.com/Products/19
     
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  6. Vtory

    Vtory Audiophile™

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    I am rather worrying otherwise. At least from my experience, low impedance and high sensitivity have been a very dangerous combination that destroys many enthusiasts (those who are wiling to use dedicated sources and amps). Amp choice would be very limited (probably not very favorable for high out-Z tubes). And that combination is typically very sensitive to even very low level of hum or hiss. Personally I prefer 100-300 ohm Z and decent (but not too high) SPL sensitivity (<100 db SPL @1V).

    Maybe this is a matter of designer's decisions or philosophies. Kinda unavoidable trade-off when going for easy-to-use.

    @cskippy : Want to hear your experience of verum with tubes.
     
  7. Garuspik

    Garuspik Tovarisch Ukrainian Terminator MOT - Verum

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    Frankly speaking I don't know how to measure sensitivity of headphones. I mean that every manufacture has it's own standard. Should I measure on 1mW? On 1V? From which distance? I would say I achieved about 95-96 db sensitivity.
    Amp choice is very simple - any solid state. For sure not OTL tube amplifier.
    I see you have Schiit Lyr 3 with Output Impedance: 0.3 ohms. That's what I'm talking - good engineered device.

    It's also interesting for me if Cskippy listened to them with tubes? Cause I have only solid state equipment and don't have such experience. And when I say tubes I don't mean hybrid amps like Schiit. That's not interesting cause it can't be problems there.
     
  8. Taverius

    Taverius Smells like sausages

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    I agree with you about SS amps with output z that high it was probably not designed correctly, and I would consider OTL tubes no go for such a headphone.

    Even though some like the HE-1000 from the Zana Deux S' 20 ohm out. :bird:

    Transformer-coupled tubes though, I think the Aficionado is 3 ohm? The ampsandsound amps have a minimum of 8 iirc, as does the cayin ha-1a, and the low end feliks stuff, the inspire IHA-1 is 4.4, the Makoyi is ~4.

    Just something to consider, many of those are popular amps.

    Obviously a planar doesn't suffer from fr changes, but damping factor can be a thing with those numbers. :)
     
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  9. Garuspik

    Garuspik Tovarisch Ukrainian Terminator MOT - Verum

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    Audiophiles often afraid of some imaginary problems. 8 ohm is a problem only to those amps who are the problem itself.
    p.s. my portable headphone amp. Almost ok to drive iem :D
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
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  10. loki993

    loki993 Facebook Friend

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    The handles make it portable!!!
     
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  11. 9suns

    9suns [insert unearned title here]

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    8 ohms is too low, it's a headphone, not a speaker, IMHO you should make it around 50 ohms.
     
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  12. Lyander

    Lyander Too sensitive for SBAF

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    SS or tubes aside, while I do see the appeal of having a pair of full-sized cans that are as easy to drive as most IEMs, I do feel higher impedance may make them more versatile for the vast majority of users. Of course, since you're going with a limited run of 100 to begin with I say do whatever the heck works for you, but it's worth considering for future releases, perhaps?
     
  13. Garuspik

    Garuspik Tovarisch Ukrainian Terminator MOT - Verum

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    I've foresaw that some people will be afraid of problems with amplification. But in fact Verum are easy to drive for any solid state or hybrid amp.
    Lest discuss for example Mr. Speaker Aeon Flow. It is 13 ohms and ~ 3db less efficient. That's absolutely the same task for amplifier in most cases as 8 ohm and + 3 db of efficiency. Have anyone heard about difficulties of amplification of Aeon Flow?
    Why 8 ohm? Already explained. 8 ohm = 1,3 mm width of trace, very reliable design. Ok, can easily go to same 13 ohms. That's not a problem at all. But if i do that - only not to scare potential customers.
     
  14. Hands

    Hands Overzealous Auto Flusher - Measurbator

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    Nothing wrong with tube + output transformer coupled amps with higher output impedance. Some of those amps are the best sounding amps around. Some work best with higher impedance dynamics, and some work well without about any headphone. Also nothing wrong with a good OTL, solid state, hybird, etc. amp, so long as well designed. They all have their purpose and pair well with different types of headphones.

    Some headphones just aren't made for specific types of amps. Just the way it is. The Aeon Flow doesn't work well with some amps, unfortunately, but that's easy enough to work around. Just use an amp that works well with it.
     
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  15. Don Miller

    Don Miller Facebook Friend

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    My z out is 4, pulling for 32 ohm.. Actually, my amp has a 30-400 setting, 30 would be ok..
     
  16. Garuspik

    Garuspik Tovarisch Ukrainian Terminator MOT - Verum

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    Like any planar magnetic cans Verum has almost zero inductance and capacity so high Zout of amp won't affect frequency response. If your amplifier can deliver 1 watt @ 8 ohm then everything is perfect.
     
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  17. Priidik

    Priidik MOT: Estelon

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    Hey, most 'big boy' tube amps are meant for 8 ohm speakers, so your hp would be 'purpose built' for those, hehe.
    I support your design thought process, it makes sense.
    Another fragile, 'mystery in a bag' variables planar that can sound great or like fartbag depending on RNG is not what we need.

    Anything planar before it that is totl needed beefy power amp to shine. People stop whining!
    There is a shit ton of good amps to choose from to power it.
     
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    Last edited: May 10, 2018
  18. Garuspik

    Garuspik Tovarisch Ukrainian Terminator MOT - Verum

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    The main thing I want to avoid is "mystery in the bag". That's why samples are sent to different people who are absolutely not interested in advertising this project.
    Also you'll hear opinions about "how hard" to drive them ;)
     
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  19. Garuspik

    Garuspik Tovarisch Ukrainian Terminator MOT - Verum

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    Maybe it's interesting for somebody - what're planar magnetic headphones look like inside. I'll show if for sure on Verum :D
    Literally it's only a few parts. Less parts = less chance to make something wrong. Most of the the time was spent to make the internal design as simple and reliable as possible. But to come to this construction took many much more complex variants. Now everything is obvious but it wasn't always so.



    By the way experimented with one-sided magnet system today (yeah only today). First immediate impression is minus 180 grams of weight ;) Sure along with the whole headphones sound became also more light-weighted. But still nothing criminal. It's still a decent headphones. But -5 db of sensitivity...
     
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  20. Magnetostatic_Tubephile

    Magnetostatic_Tubephile Friend

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    Lowest impedance and highest sensitivity is not always a good thing. I can see plenty of examples why it is not a good idea to overdo this (MP3 players, smartphones, tablets, laptops, PC soundcards, tube amps, ...).

    Try also to experiment with some asymmetrical magnet arrangements, having less magnets on one side than the other. You could get some very interesting results that way. You can try to put less magnets on the inner (ear) side or on the outer (grill) side, both should yield different results (at least subjectively).
     

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