Yggdrasil Refined - New Schiit Yggdrasil Analog 2 (Yggdrasil A2) Sound Impressions

FWIW - I included Mil in my “three” comment since I believe Goldensound has the mil boards. If anything, I left out A1 since it is no longer available .

Still very happy with the LIM. I too have OG boards/firmware hanging around.

 

In my review of the LIM, I said that I preferred it over the A2. I think I have a changed my stance here... at least for the moment. The ability to swap boards is probably a Godsend since you can just follow your mood when needed, but as of now I prefer the A2, which I've owned in the past.

This is because even though I sold my LIM recently to @Joshvar he's loaned me his Bifrost 2, and it has a tonality very similar to the A2... and the sweetness in the mids that is a byproduct of the A2's organic richness (although the BF2 overdoes it here a bit IMO) is present in the cheaper Schiit DAC. It also has hints of the same gritty plankton that is a bit shaved off from the LIM, and that gives songs a bit more textural nuance. This plankton combined with the sweetness creates a more enjoyable experience for me so far. With every song having this exciting, euphonic quality to it that is hard to ignore. I think my listening sessions on average were longer vs. the LIM, which is more evidence I am digging the music more.

Another aspect is I'm using a much better source (pi-based usb streamer into Unison), a stark contrast to the noisy laptop USB out I'd been using with my previous BF2, creating a bit of a dull, unexciting quality that always left me unimpressed with the BF2 (half decent CD transports didn't seem to help all that much either). I think this DAC really NEEDS a high quality source to sing, vs. the Yggdrasil, with it's better clocking scheme taking more advantage of lesser sources.

The LIM is still amazing, albeit a less hyped, more natural/neutral experience and still a DAC I'd happily live with, but the A2 wins out I think in the overall enjoyment factor. I don't think it's super realistic sounding, but it just has this exciting, "I just gotta listen" thing going for it.

 

I just got my A+ LIM back on Fri. 2 week turnaround by Schiit, very good!!! It is very satisfying also very different not subtle at all I'm finding from my A2 after5 years. I will give it a few more days then I'll comment further. Using 2Ch speaker not head gear.

 

I've been a Schiit boy a long time. Back to the A1, A2 (over 7years) and now the LIM.Over a week on and playing I did hear an improvement. Back in Dec I was looking for a change, I held off looking at the used market. But a move to what? A China DAC? no I will not go there. Call it what you want.

LIM is Clear smooth natural. Wow the tone so natural ambiance, piano and everything else. This is a very different sounding DAC from the A2 it is not subtle. Source PS Audio Mem transport, Speakers Fritz Carraera Be's in a treated dedicated room
Excellent separation more so than the A2 I was a bit bit shocked. Bass as mentioned seems a bit less but very articulate. Oh It's there when called for.

No dynamic loss from top to bottom. The splash is there. Very nice and involving, quiet "blackground" I suspect accounts for this.
The last few days it seemed like a "Fun" switch was flipped. Damn good.
Not a lateral move from the A2 OC. Impressive, I love it. Mike has done it again.

Highly recommended!

 

I wasn't overly impressed with the LIM when I had a couple of tracks with it (but this was a meet, with an unfamiliar amp and the DAC had only been plugged in for about an hour or so, so huge considerations).

I— by a very slight margin—preferred my old Gungnir MB A1. Though I've never heard an A2/OG, I think I'd like it over the LIM, even taking into account the shoddy conditions in which I heard the latter.

I'm interested that you said it's not a flavor switch for you and your system, and is a clear upgrade. Most have said it's a tough call, with + and - for both, but it seems you've found what works for you without any waffling.

What do you like about it over the A2? Blacker background, tonality, etc?

 

Well, a lot of variables at a meet for sure. Did the original owner like it in his sysem? He brought it over to evaluate.

The LIM elevated everything. Tone, drum skins to piano, sax , all there natural instrument tones I have not heard before.
That ambiance/depth if on the recording, separation, airy, clarity without being unnatural.

Especially the last 3 days like I said when I commented. Warm up, break in don't know?
Yes really nice dynamics from that "blackground". The A2 had some pop out splash dynamics in some areas that was not exactly natural.

This is my CD PSA Memory Transport I have not got to streaming.

Headgear will be a completely different evaluation. Room treatments, wires, make big system differences.
We also all have different tastes.

I wrote my comments as I hear them in the context of my system. No regrets on the LIM purchase here.

 

@ColtMrFire - I have been lurking on SBAF for 2 months (I did submit my intro at the start of that time) and tracking the conversation here and on the LIM impressions thread, I found yours extremely descriptive and helpful. I have been riding the fence on LIM vs A2 for a while and this latest entry just may tip the scale for me. A few thoughts and queries
1) Older users with hearing loss above 9 KHz and high pitched tinnitus- I recognize the value of LIM ‘black ground’ vs high end ‘sparkle’ and treble-related spacious-ness on the A2 on the positive side vs OTOH treble ‘roll off’ on LIM and ‘grayground’ on the A2 and wonder what of all this will make any difference to one such as I with these mild hearing impairments anyway- over all it seems that details may be more perceptible from the A2?
2) I’m a Susvara owner and will pair the Yggdrasil to a Burson 3XGT neither of which are v. tonally ‘dark’ SO thinking that LIM may be a better pairing with Sus via the GT?
3) Source- I will stream via LAN into a Sonore opticalRendu which will input into Yggdrasil via USB, though some users highly rate Pi2AES direct into AES not the unison USB. Overkill on an Yggdrasil?
Your thoughts based on your experience?

 

Appreciate the comments.

I don't think the LIM has "treble roll off" per se. I think it is slightly down-sloping in the upper registers, but still plenty extended. Just perhaps not as emphasized as the A2. I don't know enough about hearing loss/tinnitus to give any kind of sound advice there, I mean the differences in the treble in the world of DACs is probably too small between the two to worry about (maybe in the case of two different DACs, but this is the same DAC with two different flavors). Differences between the two are going to matter more in the sense that A2 is thicker in the lower mids and lows and how that gels with your amp and headphones. I haven't heard either the Susvara or the Burson 3X to give any advice there. My instinct tells me LIM is the safer bet though, since it is more even across the spectrum and will probably play better with a wider variety of gear.

Unison vs. AES from a good source is going to be a personal preference as they are too similar to take any hard stance. I preferred unison, because it seemed to take better advantage of what the Yggdrasil was doing IMO and was tailor made for that DAC by its designer. Hard to describe, which usually means it's not different enough to make a big deal of it and you must use the same instinct one uses when they pick one pair of jeans over another.

 

I can't say anymore than what has already been said favorably in the last thread (25 pages).
I'm having a blast with the LIM boards. Remember not cans. Rythmic F12se incoming.

 

Bumping this because I hear this effect even more pronounced on the Ragnarok 1.5 during a recent brief DAC swap with @Joshvar, whereas while the LIM sounds very clear and crisp, it comes off a bit more clinical because it shaves off those last percentages of plankton, making things sound more "hi-fi" and a little less realistic to me. Please don't take "clinical" seriously though, as its not a clinical DAC at all, but it's only word I can use to make my point. Granted, we are talking about small percentages, and I do not think this is a big deal on less resolving amps, but the Rag as I'm coming to learn is a crystal clear window into your gear and it highlights this differences and makes them more severe. BF2 is also impressing more alot more as the Rag reveals quite a bit more musical information this DAC is putting out than I previously thought was the case. Yggdrasil LIM is still amazing though and anyone is lucky to have one.

 

I took delivery of a new Yggdrasil+ GS2 on Friday and it has the transformer hum issue mentioned here. (A search for "Yggdrasil transformer hum" brings up this thread). I'm using an Equi=Tech 1.5Q Balanced Power unit... so I'm pretty sure "my power" isn't the problem. The DAC sounds great... that it hums is annoying... especially if the video posted is showing an assembly step that used to be done which addresses the issue? I'll document with Schiit, then probably end up fixing the issue myself.

https://equitech.com/products/rack-mount/1-5rq/

 

Have you tried ensuring that all componentry connected into the EquiTech is star-grounded? Perhaps put a 3/2 prong isolator on the Yggdrasil to see if floating it relative to downstream components works? Also, try disconnecting the EquiTech and then also try star grounding and floating to see if there’s a delta.
I’ve found over the many years that even the best Power Isolation systems do not guarantee downstream lack of hum due to ground loops…

HTH

 

What does the output voltage say it is? Do you have a multimeter to verify?

If that isolation transformer is lightly loaded, the output voltage may be considerably higher than the input. This can cause downstream transformers to hum. And as obvious troubleshooting, try it without the isolation unit involved.

 

Yep, this is worth checking out. Any iso transformer I’ve had, with no or little load, will measure higher than the mains at the wall outlet on a multimeter, and other than DC offset, one of the most common reasons for trafo hum in components is incoming voltage higher than 115-ish volts (assuming components rated for US voltage here, of course).

If you take out the iso transformer and it solves or lessens the issue, you can use a Variac after the transformer if you’re set on still using the Equi=Tech.

 

So…
1. Dunno why the Disinformation on my post above, it is solid ad well proven advice. Hell, I just lived it - yet again - during my system reconfiguration which involved moving my Tice power conditioners to the basement under all my gear, etc. I was finally able to ensure that ALL componentry in the entire system was star grounded into the power conditioner properly… and…. The (very small but extant) hum I had on all sources) was reduced. Power conditioners (proper ones) CAN help but the fundamentals must be followed. Just because you have a power conditioning system doesn’t mean you also don’t have a ground loop. You MUST disconnect, measure, and test… <what-evs>

2. More germane to this thread. I now have an Yggdrasil A1, non gen 5 USB. Got a fantastic deal on it. Remote isn’t important to me. Could give two hoots about NOS. I know I have the possibility (despite OG chassis - i.e. not + chassis) to “upgrade” to either LIM or MIB and to upgraded to a + chassis…

But… I have to say that about 9 days in now (warm up wise; remember this is a well used sample/old)… I see no reason to… the synergies with my chain are immense. On identical classical music of top quality (Mercury LP, RCA LSC’s) that I have on both CD and LP… I’m getting 95% of my live-music-experience via Yggdrasil as I do with my analog LP chain…. The magic is most certainly there.

(Phillips as the CDT to Yggdrasil (SE/Coax)>Yggdrasil>Kara (balanced)>Classe’ (balanced)>Duetta’s (biwired w/ 2 guage Litz)

So no nervosa, but that said it’d be awesome if I *did* have a + chassis and could do relatively quick “swap/compares”.

I think wiser is to repeat what we used to do back in my system building days: gather fellow-minded audiophiles and have listening sessions live.

I need to socialize this with wifey, but I’d love to host a local “Schiit Show” where several of us could play around… kinda like a Can Jam, but with Apogee Duettas in a great room…

Lord but this is transparent, airy, and real-sounding. The freaking soundstage (I’d call it Row 8 at the BSO in my experience) is glorious. Yeah, I now… I’m a ribbon/planar guy.

I’m loving it so much I’ve not yet spent enough time on cans (my Koss’ or the currently on loan/test ZMF Bokeh).

 

If you like it as it is right now, leave it that way and enjoy.
I made the mistake of buying A2 boards and ruining the synergy of my system and ended up selling the Yggi with A2 boards and bought a new DAC because I could not get back to the slightly grayer A1. Now I'm still waiting for the new DAC and am still trying to sell the A1 boards.

 

Re-posted from @Cellist88 profile post comparing Yggdrasil A1 vs A2, with his permission. Lot's of great info, not only from him, but the other participants as well. I didn't include the entire thing, but this exchange deserves to be stickied IMO @purr1n. Excellent example of system synergy, preferences, and mind blowing descriptive differences between the older and younger Yggdrasil siblings.

Cellist88 A1 Clarity with its note leaness is better, along with staging/layering. You'll clearly hear seperation/phasing. The Attack portion of the sound is very dynamic, so you can hear the gradation well.

Unfortunately because there isn't as much body as the A2 per sound, it doesn't have as much space/time for the ripples to sustain in the air. In a way its more like the convert 2. The detail is there, but drawn more toward the attacks. Its addicting because the feeling of resolution is there. Z axis 3d ness is great too.

A2 expands upon each note, making them fatter, so you can sort of peer into each note, and hear into the decay, but when there are many things happening, it tends to become a wall of sound, with clarity and imaging suffering. Again because each note size is bigger, A2 sounds very big and slams, but feels like bloated with rippling everywhere. But its this umami that's addicting.

Its like hearing the piano where the mics are placed, directly inside, wheras the A1 you are hearing it from further back. I think A1 has better timbre, almost akin to soekris, but the leaness and focus on attack makes it sound cleaner, but more digital, less "analog" as the A2. For faster complex dynamic tracks, A1. For slow ripply reverb things like Clair de Lune by Zoltan Kocsis, A2 by a far stretch.

Really good audiophile track for testing decay/gradation. . Of course in lossless, not youtube but here's an idea.


yotacowboy My review was terse because with MIB, I knew right off the bat it wasn't going to work in my system, given my preferences. Between A2 and LIM in my rig, better synergies are there, and either flavor allows for different kinds of guuuud. MIB didn't make it to guuud without rolling in and out other components in the chain, which I ain't got time for within the 15 day return window

Azimuth A1 is just more immediate and up front. A2 is just more laid back, and things appear out of the background. A1 has more layering, A2 has more separation of instruments, but the front to back separation is wild, but overall it just seems weak. And I wonder if it sounds weak just in comparison to how up front the A1 sounds. Also, A2 is more amp/synergy dependent than A1, because it also sounds better in my 2ch. system.

Cellist88 @Azimuth A1 is just a faster dac overall. A2 is bigger but slower and ripply due to mass. Think m3 vs rs6. The start and stop of every sound is better on the A1, along with energetic drive.

Cellist88 @internethandle I will eventually get a MIB, but 900 bucks for a sidegrade doesn't seem good value for me yet. Maybe MiB2 will have discrete outputs or maybe they'll have a singularity board for Yggdrasil. No Fomo needed, when stuff works. I think A2 plankton reach isn't out of reach now since tech is better. A2 does still exhibits smearing/wall of sound moments when things get too loud and complex.

yotacowboy "but 900 bucks for a sidegrade doesn't seem good value for me yet." This, too, was my exact conundrum, and I usually try to refrain from wading into value proposition for most gear I review, aside from outliers in the exceptional low-value/high-value spaces. If MIB boards were $400-ish, I may be more inclined to buy and hold, and tweak the 2-ch rig to find sympathies/synergies.

 

It is true A1 vs A2 are more trade-offs rather than trade-ups. I mean all the different Yggdrasil cards, they are all just different flavors.

 

I went from A1 to A2 when A2 was released. I owned a Hegel 360>KEF Reference 1+REL T7i 2ch setup then, and it was a big success because the "bigger" A2 was very well offset by the fast, punchy, dry-ish amp and speakers, while A1 was a bit too lean for that chain. I still miss that system sometimes (it was a great fit to a specific space, not at all to my current space). When I started using the A2 with headphone amps (Af and 3F), I started feeling something was too much — that wall of sound in busier passages. Eventually, I moved to HQPlayer + Holo and the A2 was sold.

Oh, and thanks for the Kocsis reference, I'm a sucker for Debussy solo piano, I didn't know this recording.

 

Experienced the same with my headphone setup as @earnmyturns. Particularly even with my 3 different amps, more or less, i can say I prefered A2 to A1, with my main headphones (hd800 sr + mods and jar650, the hd800s more so), although A1 was better with my Verums /shrug.