Sennheiser HD650 Love (Appreciation Thread)

Discussion in 'Headphone Measurements' started by purr1n, Sep 27, 2015.

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  1. JK47

    JK47 An angry flower

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    A fresh HD600 arrived today and I was curious to compare them to the coin modded, rear foam, and rear spider removed HD650 I have. I took a few measurements from my rig, and both headphones I believe to be the latest version.

    The first measurement was a quick swap, HD600 measured (90dB @1kHz) first and then then the HD650 with NO adjustment to volume for the HD650

    Blue: HD600
    Red: HD650


    HD600 vs HD650.jpg
    A second measurement a few hours later, again the HD600 was first (90dB @1kHz), then adjusted the volume for the HD650 to 90dB @1kHz

    HD600 vs HD650 matched.jpg

    I was surprised how closely the FR mirrored each other up until 1 kHz and above, albeit a few dB more in the HD600's favor.
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2016
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  2. zonto

    zonto Friend

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    No Dynamat/Damplifier on the HD650M measured above @JK47?
     
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  3. JK47

    JK47 An angry flower

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    Nope
     
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  4. TRex

    TRex Wow, I made it this far without being a friend?

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    Alrite, I will take chance to do the non-reversible cage removal. One question: any idea how to perfectly cut Damplifier Pro to donut shape?
     
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  5. cskippy

    cskippy Creamy warmpoo

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    Stencil and sharp scissors? Also, by cage removal, you mean rear spider correct, not grill?
     
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  6. Dino

    Dino Friend

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    @TRex - This is not an answer, but I thought I would share my experience.

    Doughnut 1:
    1) I traced the outside of two doughnuts on the Damplifier Pro with a US quarter using a Sharpie.
    2) I put the Damplifier Pro into the freezer. It ended up being in there a couple of days before I got back to it.
    3) I cut the outline from step 1 with an X-Acto knife (new blade) very carefully. It took numerous cuttings before I made it all the way through.
    4) While I was working on the first doughnut I put the rest of the Damplifier Pro back into the freezer.
    5) I used a straight edge and drew what started with an X but ended up with more than two lines until I had the center point marked on the backing.
    6) I placed this on a stack of cardboard and found a drill bit that was slightly larger than the magnet hole. (I don't remember the size, but I just eyeballed it.)
    7) I used an electric drill and started with a very slow speed to drill the hole. I had to clean the Damplifier Pro goop from the drill bit several times. It seemed like I had to increase the speed at some point to sort of a medium speed. When I ended up making the hole all of the way through I cleaned a bit of goop from that center with the X-Acto knife.
    It looked quite good to me. This took me a while and I decided to wait until later to do the second doughnut.

    Doughnut 2 (The next day):
    I performed steps 1 through 6 and it went the same as as Doughnut 1.
    7) It did not go well this time. The drilling spun the doughnut rather than going through it. I ended up trying the drill at higher speed. That did not help. I tried holding the doughnut still with my fingers. That did not work very well for me. The pressure from my fingers caused some Damplifier Pro to ooze out of the doughnut. I increased the speed and wrinkled the doughnut up. I tried straightening the doughnut out, but it still looked bad. I traced the outline for a third doughnut and I decided that was not my day and put it off a couple of days (with the last of my Damplifier Pro in the freezer).

    Doughnut 3 (2 days later):
    I performed steps 1 through 6 and it went the same as as Doughnut 1.
    7) I was hoping it would go like Doughnut 1 but it was more like Doughnut 3. When the drilling started the doughnut spun rather than penetrating, I took a sheet of cardboard and drilled a hole in than. I placed the cardboard with the drill bit through the hole and in the center of the doughnut and pressed down on the cardboard to hold the doughnut still while drilling. That sort of worked when I held the cardboard down really hard. By "sort of" I mean that the doughnut spun and the drill penetrated. It came out kind of wrinkled. I smoothed it out as best I could. It looked better than Doughnut 2 and I didn't have enough Damplifier Pro to try another doughnut. I covered it with gaffer tape and trimmed and drilled that. That looked okay to me and perfectly fine with the grill on. I ended up using the gaffer tape on Doughnut 1 so that they would match.

    I do not know why Doughnut 1 went so well and the second and third attempts had so many problems.
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2016
  7. Kattefjaes

    Kattefjaes Mostly Harmless

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    @Dino - you shame me. I just used scissors/knife and hacked it. Mine looks like a toddler did it (but works well). The holes in the front foam were done quickly with a large pair of kitchen scissors in the spirit of "fuck it, let's do this", too.

    I'm also far happier with the sound than I was. When the bass was too overwhelming, I could hear less detail in the mids (some kind of psycho-acoustic masking possibly?). Now it's dialled back, it's only overwhelming in tracks with overwhelming bass, plus I'm hearing more detail all over the frequency range. Highs aren't pissing me off with the (pound) coin hole, even from the Jot, which is a surprise. Bass is still snappier and more textured than it was in stock, too.

    They're really enjoyable headphones now, after all that faffing about. There was a point where they were sounding very dark and not at all appealing, so I am pretty happy with the result.

    I'm grateful for the encouragement and help I got in this thread, as I am the world's clumsiest DIYer. Glad I took the plunge.
     
  8. Dino

    Dino Friend

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    Looking back, I think that if I do this again I will forget the drill and cut the center hole with an X-Acto knife.
     
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  9. gixxerwimp

    gixxerwimp Professional tricycle rider

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    Sorry, been away on vacation for a couple of weeks so am just catching up with this thread now.

    I doubled up on Dynamat in certain areas and found it tightened up the bass but reduced treble a bit.
    http://www.superbestaudiofriends.or...ove-appreciation-thread.44/page-19#post-27136

    @firev1 tried my "stage 2" and didn't get the same improvements as I did.
    http://www.superbestaudiofriends.or...ove-appreciation-thread.44/page-20#post-27883

    I eventually removed the spider, covered the magnet with Dynamat, and put a ring of foam back where the original back foam was. I also put rug liner a la @Hands behind the front foam which has reduced the treble grain a bit [edit].
    http://www.superbestaudiofriends.or...ove-appreciation-thread.44/page-57#post-86228

    I wonder how much @SoupRKnowva's placement covering all the ports in the baffle is responsible for the differences, as opposed to the actually location of Dynamat application. I think the general consensus at the SBAF Can'tJam Meet was that his mod was "the best".
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2016
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  10. k4rstar

    k4rstar Britney fan club president

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    Bored on a Friday, figured why not update the index to this thread as it's overdue for one. Started with philipmorgan's work on page 36, removed some irrelevant links, added headers and one-liner descriptions of what's being linked. Pulled some relevant links from other threads. If I missed something (pretty likely) just PM me and I'll add it in.

    EDIT: I'm going to recommend you start by looking at Marv's KISS mod post (first link below) and decide whether you want to do the traditional trifecta of mods or his new iteration.

    WHAT ARE THESE MODS AND WHAT DO THEY DO?
    @Marvey's KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid) Mod -- 1
    @Marvey's original posts, start here dummy -- 1 / 2
    Noise floor measurements and CSDs -- 1
    @Hands summarizes the changes with measurements -- 1 / 2 / 3
    @Dino compares modded to stock 650 -- 1
    @TwoEars does it a little differently and gives his thoughts -- 1 / 2 / 3
    @JK47 gives measurements of a modded 650 to a stock pair of 600s -- 1

    General user impressions -- 1 / 2 / 3 / 4 / 5 / 6 / 7 / 8 / 9 / 10 / 11 / 12 / 13

    Notes on listener fatigue -- 1 / 2

    OK I'M INTERESTED, HOW DO I DO THEM?
    @Bill-P shows you how to pop off the grill -- 1
    @Hands reminds you to clip the spider cage off with the cup upside down and to not fuck with the front spider -- 1 / 2
    @zonto gives comprehensive instructions on each mod -- 1 / 2
    @gixxerwimp gives some advice on cutting a hole in the front foam -- 1

    WHAT SHOULD IT LOOK LIKE WHEN IM DONE?
    These posts show you where to place dampener with the spider cage intact --1 / 2 / 3 / 4
    These posts show possible dynamat placements with the spider cage off -- 1 / 2 / 3 / 4 / 5 / 6 / 7 / 8 / 9 / 10 / 11 / 12 / 13
    These posts demonstrate the size of the coin hole mod -- 1 / 2 / 3 / 4 / 5

    ETCETERA
    @zonto suggests using Second Skin Damplifier Pro instead of generic dynamat -- 1
    Link to Creatology foam which you can sandwich together with dynamat to make it easier to work with -- 1 / 2
    @Besnia suggests adding a sheet of cork -- 1
    @beemerphile suggests using roof repair adhesive in place of dynamat -- 1
    @Garns suggests adding massloaded vinyl to the outer rim -- 1 / 2
    @cskippy goes rogue -- 1
    @batriq shows us what it looks like when you re-terminate your HD650 cable -- 1 / 2 / 3

    A link to download a 67 page article by Solderdude of DIY Audio which covers 650 modding, complete with measurements
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2016
  11. zonto

    zonto Friend

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    @k4rstar: Amazing work! Sent you a PM. Great minds think alike, and I think this would work extremely well integrated into a much larger community project I've been working on.
     
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  12. kittenuwu

    kittenuwu Acquaintance

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    Just got my pair in today!

    I told myself I was gonna hold off on any mods for a while, at least until I had the rest of my rig in (currently using ODAC and Magni2 lmal) but after about an hour I decided that stuff just wasn't engaging as I wanted it to be and ripped out the foam behind the driver. Liking it so far, I'm pretty awful at describing sound but it's definitely less... boring. I'll dampen the drivers whenever my dynamat comes in (unless i find something suitable before then) but I think I'll hold off on the quarter mod for a while. Have a bad history with quarter mods, always end up regretting them.

    Gonna test them against my HE400is when the rest of my stuff comes in, hopefully the 650s embarrass them enough I don't feel bad about selling the HFM off and getting down to just one pair.

    ended up deciding on a jotun over a val2 when all the people I was tryna get a Valhalla from bailed. Kinda relieved, actually. Tube rolling seems like it would enable me
     
  13. purr1n

    purr1n Loves Sex and Records

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    There will be a link from the Featured Content Tab to this post.

    http://www.superbestaudiofriends.org/index.php?pages/FeaturedContent/
     
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  14. TRex

    TRex Wow, I made it this far without being a friend?

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    Officially joined spider cage removal club :headbang:

    [​IMG]
    Wish I had surgeon hands...

    Momby + Jotun

    Vs. Dynamat-only:
    1. Elevated treble (which made them more balanced), might cause fatigue for people who isn't used to neutral headphones. Airy, more open.
    2. Although treble is more prominent than before, it's less problematic. Gone tizzy-izzy treble resonance. Au revoir treble valleys & peaks. The treble is smooth enough for long listening sessions. Treble grain & metallic timbre are reduced but still present.
    3. Less impact as the result of less bass dominance. Air vs impact, pick your poison.

    I'm absolutely happy with the mod. It has few drawbacks, but it fixed the big problem. As I wrote on some posts before, treble peaks and resonance were frequently disturbing (alternative rock guy here).
     
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  15. kittenuwu

    kittenuwu Acquaintance

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    Did you notice any differences just from spidercage removal?

    I know Hands did, but I'm not sure if his ears/equipment are just jesus-tier... you have the exact same rig as me and use it to listen to mostly the same genre, so probably a more realistic reference.

    I mostly want to snip it off just to make adding a thin dustcover easier
     
  16. thegunner100

    thegunner100 Hentai Master Chief

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    If you take the rear foam out, removing the spider is a must. Others have mentioned it before, but you'll end up getting reflections from the plastic without any foam covering it.

    If you don't end up liking the Jotun, at least you'll know where to go from there xD.
     
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  17. kittenuwu

    kittenuwu Acquaintance

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    Nice, in then. I can always just glue the foam back on later if I want, right?

    Unfortunately I'm not sure I've heard enough gear to actually "not like" something this much technically better than what I have rn :p

    That said, if I had to guess, I wouldn't think I'd have a problem with a slightly aggressive amp... I did use grados/magnums for a few years straight

    That said, I have no idea how much I'd care about the soundstage of the Val2 vs Jotun because I've never heard anything with really good soundstaging before (lookin at you, grado)
     
  18. James Whiting

    James Whiting Facebook Friend

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    There have been a couple of alternate damping approaches suggested recently on the last page of the thread. This made me wonder if a bit more damping might improve things. My 650's are pretty much sealed with my grill mods...so I decided to damp on the front of the frame. There is a bit of space to do so. I used a combination of damplifier, out of damplifier pro, from sample pack and some leftover dynamatt extreme in equal quanties. Filled in all the spaces to a relatively level surface. Try it!
    It is definetly better. I will not wax lyrically as I have been instructecd not to....lol! Everything is smoother. Less bloat. Dynamics are more prominant. More air and better staging. Bass has a bit more extension and impact. Lower noise floor, blacker background. In case your wondering my backframe uses the standard damping config on this thread using damplifier pro. Just an update on my ongoing modification. I will refrain from saying I am done since there is always something showing up here I had not considered
     
  19. DigMe

    DigMe Geekus Imperator

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    Post a pic of your new damping, please.
     
  20. James Whiting

    James Whiting Facebook Friend

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    [​IMG]


    Sorry my camera phone basically sucks on close up pictures...no macro function. You can see the indentations slash bracing along the outer edge. I placed damplifier an a base layer. I was out of damplifier pro, but had some damplifier from the kit second skin sent. I filled in and put a second layer over it with Dynamatt
    Extreme. You can see the tool box liner that is under the front foam and glued to the baffle. I couldn't easily pull the foam off as it was adhering a bit to the butyl
    around the outside edge so I pulled back a bit so you can see the approach and the interpolate how the rest of it goes! My backframe damping is standard on here with damplifier pro, which I prefer to Dynamatt Extreme. It is sealed effectively!

    [​IMG]

    My grille mod...more open than stock grille. Internal and external foam diffraction rings. Removed stock
    grille and then cut out the plastic edge it sits on. Need to find more consistent thin foam...hand cut this
    to thickness.

    Happy Listening,
    jgwtriode
     

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