Grado PS500e Review and Measurements (and SR80X too)

Discussion in 'Headphones' started by purr1n, Oct 2, 2023.

  1. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    These are the PS500e. @rfernand sent them to me for science. Based on memory from a long time ago, I thought they were bassier. Maybe I was thinking PS1 or maybe the PS500e I heard were from of an amp with higher output impedance. Tonally, the PS500e, with the included L cush pads, measure with the classic Grado frequency response, tilted upwards, some midrange emphasis (although less crunchy), and punchy midbass (with tube amps). Being from the e series, there's a bit of sssss in the mid-treble above the sibilance area that emphasizes definition similar to the RS2e. The high end is quite airy too. Despite the bright tonal balance, I find the PS500e to be quite livable even with the L cush pads without the coarseness compared to the lower end Grados (where I prefer the F pads). Perhaps the wood inner cups (the outer are metal obviously) helps to mollify the edge or coarse of the highs.

    ps500e.jpg

    Here's a frequency response measurement of the PS500e.

    Grado PS500e
    L cush (stock) pads
    Frequency Response (GRN = Left, RED = Right)
    compensated response where straight horizontal line across indicates perceptual neutral
    not the same as Sean Olive's Harmon consumer preference curve
    upload_2023-10-2_14-34-36.png

    Let's compare to other headphones

    Grado PS500e (GRN = Left, RED = Right)
    Grado RS2e (GRY)
    Frequency Response
    upload_2023-10-2_14-44-16.png


    Grado PS500e (GRN = Left, RED = Right)
    Grado SR80X with S cush (GRY)
    Frequency Response
    upload_2023-10-2_14-49-5.png

    Grado PS500e (GRN = Left, RED = Right)
    JAR600 (GRY)
    Frequency Response
    upload_2023-10-2_14-51-16.png

    Note: The JAR600 or Jupiter Audio Research 600 is my reference for a neutral headphone when I am in the mood for a neutral, sound. Nope, it's not perfect, but it's close. I think @CEE TEE at Nitsch Audio may have a few pairs for sale in the USA.
     
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    Last edited: Oct 3, 2023
  2. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    PS500e
    CSD L
    upload_2023-10-2_15-12-42.png

    PS500e
    CSD R
    upload_2023-10-2_15-0-46.png

    Now this is interesting. The PS500e exchanges the ringing that we typically see in the mids and upper mids with ringing in the highs. The ringing is shorted lived and dies before the 2ms. So maybe this explains why I found the highs "livable". The clean mids and short lived ringing in the highs could explain why so many have a stated preference for the PS500e to other Grados. The PS500e despite having similar FR has different CSD measurements showing different decay characteristics. (This is a prime example of why frequency response doesn't tell us everything, and why we need suites of measurements to give us the fuller picture).

    For comparison, here's the RS2X CSD.
    upload_2023-10-2_15-10-2.png
     
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  3. Vtory

    Vtory Audiophile™

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    Your analysis is as insightful as always, though I anticipate you'll have more findings to share later on.
    Interestingly, based on your results, one of my audiophile friends was convinced to purchase the PS500e today, seeking a touch more treble than his RS2x offers with the F-cushions.

    I've always been a bit skeptical about the impact of wood on such compact, open cylindrical cups in headphones. Yet, even though frequency response plots might suggest otherwise, I've consistently found that the higher-end Grados resonate better with my listening preferences compared to their lower-tier counterparts. This experience has made me increasingly inclined to believe that the cup material plays a role. Currently, my hypothesis leans towards wooden internal cups offering a superior audio experience compared to plastic ones. I'm still uncertain about the metal cups until I get my hands on "real" metal Grados, (for context, the 325 series doesn't have internal metal surface to my knowledge).
     
  4. rfernand

    rfernand Almost "Made"

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    @Vtory : the RS1x I think is more evidence to your hypothesis. The new wood voodoo has resulted in the Grado GOAT, imo
     
  5. HeyWaj10

    HeyWaj10 Almost "Made"

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    I remember listening to these specific headphones years ago when trying a mix of Grados (SR-225e, SR-325e, RS-2e, RS-1e, and PS500e). I remember liking the tonal/timbral presentation of the woodies, but preferred the overall presentation of the PS500e, and the ringing differences in those waterfall plots may really be the ticket to why that preference fell with the PS500. It's also amazing how closely similar the FR of the whole line is - yet you can have completely different experiences with each one.
     
  6. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    I am evaluating the PS500e with the F-cush right now and comparing to RS2X with F-cush. The PS500e is subjectively less emphasized in mids, less crunchy, and more airy in the highs. The differences are not huge. The PS500e is still a Grado. FR measurements are very similar and don't explain the small subjective differences, but we already know FR doesn't explain everything.

    PS500e F cush (YEL)
    RS2X F cush (GRY)
    Frequency Response
    upload_2023-10-3_8-56-48.png
     
  7. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    PS500e L cush
    Left channel
    Distortion (db) at 100db SPL
    upload_2023-10-3_9-20-32.png

    PS500e L cush
    Right channel
    Distortion (db) at 100db SPL
    upload_2023-10-3_9-22-56.png

    For reference, let's compare to SR325X and SR80X using the same L cush pads for apple to apples.

    SR325X
    upload_2023-10-3_9-28-2.png

    SR80X L cush
    upload_2023-10-3_9-32-44.png

    SR80X does surprisingly well even though it sounds dirtier and less refined. Point #2. Measurements can give us indications of how something may sound, but they don't tell us everything. More measurements can give us more indicators, more of an idea how something may sound, but they still don't tell us everything. Anyone who claims a piece of gear to be objectively perfect based on one or even 10 measurements doesn't understand the limitations of measurements: specific measurements only measure specific aspects of sound, of which there are infinite.
     
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  8. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    Same as above, but using a variant for THD calculations (tweaked a bit from that), and THD(merv) in %

    PS500e
    THD(merv)
    upload_2023-10-3_10-0-8.png

    SR325X
    upload_2023-10-3_9-57-7.png

    SR80X
    THD(merv)
    upload_2023-10-3_9-59-0.png
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2023
  9. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    And RS1X (L cush) for fun.
    upload_2023-10-3_10-2-29.png
     
  10. Vtory

    Vtory Audiophile™

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    Could you overlay the frequency responses for both RS2x and PS500e when equipped with L-cush pads? I'm interested in determining if the similarities in FR are attributed to the pads or other components like drivers and cups (i.e., regardless of pads).
     
  11. Emojiless

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    Wonder how good of a value the PS500E is for someone who wants to try Grados since its discontinued and can be found for a good price - f.e. dealer in my country currently has them for 300 eur (400 eur off). How far are they behind RS2X?
     
  12. purr1n

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    upload_2023-10-4_9-25-0.png

    The latest RS X series is a slight step up from the prior E series with respect to resolution. The PS500E is on par with RS2E, which really isn't that far behind. They are so close in technical ability in that the best way to think about it shouldn't be how far behind, but rather how do they differ tonally.

    PS500e will be brighter in the highs, flatter in the mids with less of that characteristic Grado mid sound. At least this was my subjective impression. The PS500e also measured with a bit more midbass, but I'm not sure I noticed this. The PS500e sort of part way bridges the L cush Grados and the big bowl Grados like the GS1000/3000. The GS1000/3000 are tipped up at the extremes with very flat mids.

    I figure there is a reason why the "PS".
     
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    Last edited: Oct 4, 2023
  13. M3NTAL

    M3NTAL Friend

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    X-Hemp-PS500/HF2-HP1000. We're working towards the woody we want and not the woody the world is giving us.
     
  14. Martigane

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    It would be interesting to see the burst / decay response of the grado given how clean/fast the midrange is on the waterfall.
     
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  15. Lyander

    Lyander Official SBAF Equitable Empathizer

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    There are some older ones here but going off descriptions it feels like the modern series might be a fair bit different in character. Would be keen to see the same for the modern Grado lineup

    https://www.superbestaudiofriends.o...e-hd800-sr-207-hd650.3688/page-13#post-297520
     
  16. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    Grado PS500E
    Stock Bowl Pads
    Attack and Decay Envelopes from 10-cycle Bursts
    upload_2023-10-22_15-16-17.png

    Some really nice crisp attacks without overshoot with the exception of the 4.8kHz which is expected. The PS500E is still has Grado DNA.
     
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    Last edited: Oct 22, 2023
  17. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    SR325X for comparison, stock F-pads, but which has more of a classic Grado timbre and attack. The PS500E is smoother and less grainy.
    upload_2023-10-22_15-27-3.png
     
  18. AeroX

    AeroX New

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    Hello fellow Gradoers. My first post here. Is the PS500e a step up in SQ from SR325x or is it a sidegrade due to the new x-gen drivers being superior to the old e-generation?
     
  19. rfernand

    rfernand Almost "Made"

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    Upgrade!
     
  20. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    It's an upgrade. I'd place the technical capabilities of the PS500e to somewhere in-between RS2X and SR325X, but closer to RS2X. There is actually a decent gap between the SR325X and RS2X, even more than RS2e to SR325e.

    However, be aware that the PS500e is slightly different in tuning from the SR series and RS2X, as explained earlier in this thread.

    @rfernand: I need to get them back to you! Didn't you ask how they fared with the Pietus? I can't remember.
     

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