Merv's Politically Incorrect Audio Blog

Discussion in 'SBAF Blogs' started by purr1n, Dec 26, 2018.

  1. penguins

    penguins Friend, formerly known as fp627

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    Now two more rhetorical points I haven't seen yet and don't typically see:

    1. If the cartels could make guns at the beginning of the cartel wars with minimal/rudimentary technology out of raw material or many kids back in the day made zip guns out of scrap metal/parts or shotguns can be made out of a piece of any crappy piece of tubing (of the correct diameter) and some kind of hammer/ignition (pointy metal piece and a spring), what's to stop people from still doing bad things with guns after control is implemented? IMO there isn't. I would imagine that many engineers here on SBAF would agree with me. Heck, even modders or those who have built our own amps here... I'd imagine an amp is harder to build that a tube, spring, and hammer,

    For those who don't believe me that it's that simple, google pictures online or look at some of the basic makeshift stuff in Fallout 4 (they look very similar to things police have confiscated).

    2. IMO I'd actually rather have guns and deal with gun violence than no guns and deal with potentially worse forms of violence. It seems like guns are "easy" enough to get that people just don't think about it and use guns. Injure 1-2 and maybe kill 1-2 on average (the ones that don't make the news) then the shooter gets shot or people run away. When one can't get guns, they will simply find other outlets... and if we look at say Iraq, Afghanistan, or even isolated incidents like London subway or Boston maration, etc.... bombs are way worse. Can kill and injure dozens to hundreds instead of a few. Imagine if the Vegas shooter had thrown a bomb down into the crowd. It would have ended WAY worse than him shooting into the dense crowd and probably 0 people would have been able to run away fast enough vs the majority that did.

    Before one says bombs are too hard to make for this to be a real concern, Boston marathon guy had a high school education and used things you can easily buy (like a pressure cooker). Illiterate guys in villages and caves with little money and resources made enough bombs in the last several "wars" in the Mid East to REALLY mess up a MUCH larger and more advanced coalition of forces.

    Point is, I REALLY DON'T WANT TO SEE the day that people decide to vent their frustrations in the form of bombs when guns aren't available anymore.

    And also based on the two above, I don't think any form of gun control would practically solve any problems in the long run.. But I've seen enough evidence to point towards it will eventually create it's own problems.. Not that I want unstable people and violent criminals buying guns or that I even trust every single "average" person to have/handle guns... but just that I don't think it's realistic to expect laws to solve problems at a significant level.

    Again, I don't keep guns around me. But if I want to be real about things, this is what I currently view as reality.
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2019
  2. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    My kids haven't seen their schools shot up either. I only know two people who have been shot. Both times were self-inflicted, suicide. I don't think there were avenues for assisted suicide back then or even now. So good for them for taking the initiative. Note that I do not condone suicide and believe that suicide is very very bad. But who I am to judge?

    As far as improving background checks. That's a good idea, but difficult to implement because of privacy issues and being able to predict future behavior based based on indicators.

    I'll bet GPA, credit score, income, and job status would be good indicators, but then that amounts to elitism.

    The bottom line is that we have working solutions that really can't be made any better unless it's so intrusive that citizens will complain, and that America is just a violent place populated by people who love guns, and that there are more people who love guns or people who love people with guns than people who dislike guns.

    And if it weren't guns, it be with swords and pillows. A daughter of a family friend slew her husband with a sword after smothering her kids to death with pillows.
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2019
  3. elmoe

    elmoe Friend

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    If you want to be real about things, you stop looking at "knife attacks in London for 3 months" vs "gun deaths in the US for 3 months" and you compare murder rates in similarly developed countries over years:

    [​IMG]

    No your kids haven't, but too many American kids have. Personally I have friends who got shot and died in the US, and I don't live in a particularly bad neighborhood, though I wouldn't say Phoenix is exactly crime free.

    I disagree that nothing more can be done, or that solutions in place are working. Yes better solutions will be more intrusive, they're also not mandatory - dont want the background check, dont get a gun.
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2019
  4. penguins

    penguins Friend, formerly known as fp627

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    ^ I mention all violent crime, not just murder or gun deaths.
     
  5. Psalmanazar

    Psalmanazar Most improved member; A+

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    Angry nomad with ponies and plague > idyllic sentimental European existence

    Angry monk with paper, pen, and nails > idyllic sentimental European existence

    Angry Serb with a pistol > idyllic sentimental European existence

    Angry failed landscape artist with tanks > idyllic sentimental European existence

    Tanks ran over your snooty little bikes and were only stopped by vodka chuggers and Detroit muscle. Now your people eat McDonald’s, love kebabs, and post on the web in English. Without American guns y’all would be fucked. Deal with it.

     
  6. elmoe

    elmoe Friend

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    What's your source for this?

    And if it weren't for "my people" (I'm an American citizen by the way spanky), you'd be drinking tea while lifting your little finger and singing God Save The Queen at baseball games. Without French guns y'all wouldn't have been able to even unfuck us in the first place. Deal with it.
     
  7. E_Schaaf

    E_Schaaf MOT: E.T.A Headphones

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    Just a few points of further elaboration here

    https://www.latimes.com/science/sto...gs-are-a-leading-cause-of-death-for-black-men

    https://www.theatlantic.com/nationa...rs-who-hit-their-wives-or-girlfriends/380329/

    https://theintercept.com/2018/11/05/new-york-times-police-white-supremacy/

    https://www.commondreams.org/views/2019/08/11/mass-shootings-most-american-way-kill-and-die

    https://www.bellingcat.com/news/ame...paso-shooting-and-the-gamification-of-terror/

    You cannot discuss gun violence in the United States without also investigating police brutality and the increasing proliferation of white supremacist ideology in various media outlets, political structures, and social spheres. These are all related things.
     
  8. YMO

    YMO Chief Fun Officer

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    I want to point out that all of these links are political left in the spectrum. The Atlantic is a good magazine, but they do have Central-Left Bias and they aren't ashamed of saying it if you subscribe to them as I do.
     
  9. Syzygy

    Syzygy Friend

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    A big problem with this from my perspective is laws declaring schools "gun free zones" (a federal law in the US, and many states have similar laws). That means that only a criminal or a uniformed police officer will have a gun in schools. Teachers and staff are forbidden to carry on campus, even if they've had training and have a CHL.

    Criminals do like to go to do their misdeeds wherever they're less likely to be resisted or injured/killed in the process.

    Being able to carry a firearm enables a person to defend his/her self, family, and friends in the event a thug wants to do them harm. That said, each state has different laws about the use of deadly force.

    It's funny (strange) that you never hear about all of the crimes prevented or limited because there was an armed citizen at the scene. But that doesn't fit the narrative of the news media so they choose not to report it. It happens often in America. I used to occasionally view this website that posts the news of those events. It's been awhile since I visited there.

    ---

    I saw a news report this week wherein knife crimes are on the rise in Britain, with the mayor of London trying to enact some sort of "knife control" in the city. Those with intent to commit a crime will use all available means to accomplish their goal.
     
  10. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    How many of you anti-gun folks have actually befriended "pro-gun" folks and asked them to take you to the shooting range? I would at least ask of you to do this, maybe even try out different kinds of guns, revolvers, bolt-action rifles, shotguns, assault rifles, etc. Ask these "pro-gun" folks why they have guns, ask them if they've ever had to use them, ask them how they learned to shoot, ask them why they like the guns that they use. Maybe try to understand rather than pass judgment. (Pictures or it didn't happen.)

    I think you will find many "pro-gun" folks quite the opposite of what certain media outlets want to characterize them as: alt-right nutjob, white supremacist, pro-police brutality, uncaring of animals, uncaring of human lives. If anything, the "pro-gun" folks tend to conscientious, generous, community-oriented, and self-sufficient.

    My son is entering junior high school this year. I will be taking him to the shooting range so he can learn how to use a rifle.
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2019
  11. ultrabike

    ultrabike Measurbator - Admin

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    Mass murder as a form of cry for help or attention is not a sane behavior. But indeed, one does not have to be insane to commit mass murder, or in general, do something pretty fucked up.

    Do you feel English people, or people brought up in England, are somehow immune or resilient to these types of behaviors?

    And what do you attribute this to? Unique French culture?

    Do you guys feel a sense that your country's policies, background, and/or social structure is more robust and evolved than the one next door or the ones on other side of the world? Do you feel you are alone in feeling this way, of that other folks from other countries but your own agree with your assesment?

    Do you guys feel France should be the model country to follow and measure up to? or is it England? or is it Spain? or maybe Germany? Could it be Russia? Perhaps Australia?
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2019
  12. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    We need van control. 2017 Barcelona and 2016 Nice.
     
  13. Senorx12562

    Senorx12562 Case of the mondays

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    Issues surrounding gun control or lack thereof are nowhere near the biggest problems in the USA right now. Not even close. The people agitating for changes in gun laws might currently be the loudest, or maybe just the screechiest, but there are far bigger institutional and structural problems, the fixing of which (if it isn't already too late) might go a long way toward reducing the feelings that drive people to commit the heinous acts that gun control advocates seek to prevent. But disarming the only Americans who would comply with further gun regulation (who of course are the ones least likely to commit such acts) is not going to reduce the carnage.
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2019
  14. elmoe

    elmoe Friend

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    What do I attribute what to? Less gun deaths in France? Stricter gun laws, less guns, no culture of fear.

    I don't feel any country is a model country to follow on everything. I think many countries excel at certain things which other countries who don't could learn a thing or two from. Why are you making this about patriotism? I live in the US, am a naturalized US citizen, married to an American wife with American kids.

    I drive a German car and you won't see me switching to a fuckin Ford. You mad?
     
  15. Syzygy

    Syzygy Friend

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    Sorry, in my prior quoted response I was on the way to give a business presentation and perhaps should've waited to respond.

    I disagree with your assertion wholeheartedly. Everyone I know with firearms is the exact opposite of what you describe. I know quite a few, and I myself hold the view that life is indeed precious. As a CHL holder, I've already decided the circumstances in which I'd be willing to draw and use my weapon, as a form of training myself to be prepared. For me, only when a perp is killing or seriously injuring others. Even drawing a weapon, sometimes you can arrest a person until the police arrive without firing.

    Also keep in mind that it's a Hollywood movie myth that people typically die from a single shot. Of course it sometimes happens. My wife's sister's husband's mom tried to kill herself, shooting herself in the brain. She's still alive, functioning normally.


    I'd be willing to entertain the idea that violent video games have a psychological impact on a certain segment of the population that makes them forget that life is precious.
     
  16. ultrabike

    ultrabike Measurbator - Admin

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    I'm not sure what you mean by "culture of fear". So far I don't feel this "fear" you are talking about. This coming from I'm a Mexican-American, actually born in Mexico and whose first language is Spanish.

    This is not about patriotism. This is about what you consider role models to follow, and feeling entitled to call everyone out of line for not thinking the same way you do. This is about understanding that what you feel, could be right or wrong depending on context. It is also about understanding that the grass is not greener on the other side of the fence.

    I have an English born friend, with an American wife with American kids, and living in SoCal. The dude refuses to naturalize himself. He regularly bitches about the same things you do, and then some. Prior to that he bitched about everything German when he was working in Germany. And prior to that about everything British when he was in England. And now he has gone 360. He is never happy. Always moving.

    As far as cars, I don't really care. I have a Ford Fusion and a Toyota RAV4 which have been with me brand new for > 10 years. My bro drives a BMW. I couldn't care less.
     
  17. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    It's a matter of culture. The USA is not France. The USA leans more toward "anything goes". There is both good and bad to this. Life is less certain in the USA by design from the Founding Fathers. When I lived in Santa Cruz 30 years ago, a visiting friend from France saw the drug-use, homelessness, and poverty on Pacific Avenue. He exclaimed: one of zese days, all ze poor will rise up and keel you! Well, it hasn't happened yet and it won't.

    A "more just" social system is admirable but wouldn't be free of consequences. For every poor soul that the state saves from being drugged up and panhandling on Pacific Avenue, the state has also sucked the gumption and life out of a soul that doesn't need saving. I"m not advocating one way or another other, the vacillating approach, often somewhere in between, is ultimately determined by the voters.

    Similarly, in terms of freedoms, the system here allows a certain number of people to die from senseless gun deaths so that almost all people can have the freedom to easily possess guns. This is the risk assessment, the risk acceptance that Americans as a whole have made. I do see things changing from the trends as active shooter incidents have been increasing year by year since 2000. People now seem willing to give up some of those freedoms, particularly ease of obtaining guns, in exchange for less active shooter incidents. Heck, even Trump seems to be on board, sort of, until he makes up his mind.

    BTW. I have been deliberately vague about my own feelings, but I believe that guns should at least be just as hard to get as a drivers' license. I believe that people who want guns should be required to take a test to demonstrate competence with a firearm, a sound mental state, and upstanding character; and clear a background check. I don't believe that people who seek treatment for mental health should be disqualified. A lot of veterans and police rely on these services, their jobs are extremely stressful, and one wrong move in the heat of an adrenaline rush, and it all goes to hell.

    Because of the more stringent requirements, I believe that people should be able to own whatever weapons they want, whether they be assault rifles, battle rifles, anti-materiel rifles, etc. as opposed to the state creating strange characterizations of weapons as "assault" of whatever and then banning them. While "assault" sounds scary, shotguns are actually a lot more deadly if want to go to a public place and kill random people, and handguns are a lot easier to handle than assault rifles if you want to up to injury count.

    I don't think you quite understand the American psyche about guns. And if you don't understand, you will get absolutely nowhere if you want to convince others on the need for more stringent gun restrictions.
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2019
  18. Josh83

    Josh83 Friend

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    FWIW, I grew up around guns (my dad is a cop), and I’ve been to guns shows and shooting ranges (including by myself as an adult). I think shooting is fun. Still, given all that, I’d be more than fine banning guns.
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2019
  19. elmoe

    elmoe Friend

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    Role models are for people, not countries. I don't feel entitled to anything more than giving my opinion on an online forum, same as everybody else. You dont like my opinion then noone forces it on you, take it or leave it ese, where did I call everybody out for not thinking the same way I do? I argued specific points and backed it up with actual facts, if those facts hurt your feelings I can't help you, and if you think it's an affront to your country then you're clueless about what loving your country means and even more clueless about the fact that it's my country too. Just because somebody disagrees with your point of view doesn't mean they're bitching, it means they disagree with your point of view and leave it at that. If you want to understand what I feel then understand that I moved to the US because to me, it's the best place to live in the world. I married an American girl because to me, she's the best girl in the world. That doesn't mean I'm going to blindly agree with everything that happens in this country, or France for that matter, and the culture of fear (you feel the need to arm yourself to protect yourself) is one of those things I don't agree with. Doesn't mean I don't think this is still where I want to live. I'm just not blindly patriotic and won't defend things my country does just because I think it's the best country in the world. That's what's called nationalism and that kind of ridiculous shit isn't worth my time or consideration, Europeans know a thing or two about nationalists and we've seen enough of it to dismiss it when we see it.

    I'm not your English born friend. If I didn't like it here, I have a French passport and French citizenship, I'd be gone already. Just because I disagree with SOME Americans on this particular topic here, doesn't mean I am hating on the whole of America. As much as people who disagree with the views I have tend to equate them to some kind of "hate of America" bullshit because it goes against what they themselves believe, that doesn't make it true. Blind love is not true love my friend and I have no qualms whatsoever voicing my opinions on things I disagree with, that's a staple of American freedom and I will exercise that right anytime I damn well please.

    I live in Arizona, I know plenty of people personally who literally own closests full of guns. Machine guns, AK47s, M4s, Uzis, handguns galore. It's fuckin ridiculous and I wouldn't trust any of my loved ones around them. I've met guys with PTSD, guys with drug habits, alcoholics, people with anger issues who own guns and keep them close (car, home, on their persons). I know quite the number of people personally who should not have any access to firearms, but here you can go to any pawn shop and get a gun pretty easily. You can buy one off of Armslist pretty much anonymously: https://www.armslist.com/classifieds/phoenix-arizona all you gotta do is click "I Agree" to their terms of service. That's a problem.

    I don't disagree with you Marv. There's a reason I moved here in the first place, and I understand American culture well enough to know that guns aren't going away anytime soon. That being said, there is progress being made towards restricting access to certain guns for certain people which to me is a step in the right direction. I am not anti-gun and have no problem with normal people owning a firearm if they wish it, but I'm not going to defend a crazy fool's right to own an automatic rifle.

    The driver's license analogy is actually something Ive been thinking about too. We're on the same page there, I agree 100% with everything in that post. Banning guns is not an answer and although I have no need or want to own guns myself, I don't have any issues with people owning firearms. What matters more in my book is 1) who we're allowing to buy guns and 2) what kind of guns we're allowing them to own.
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2019
  20. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    Was your gun-toting dad an alt-right racist pig cop who beat the crap out of colored people?
     

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