Nearfields for audiophile listening?

Discussion in 'Speakers' started by sashafuckinggrey, Feb 27, 2016.

  1. Priidik

    Priidik MOT: Estelon

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    Given your request you will shoot yourself in the foot when you at least won't consider big 3 ways (large woofer).
    Grown up dynamics and slam is not present from regular 2 way monitors that attempt to produce low bass (laws of physics and the Force, duh).

    Or instead; cut the mid-fi limbo and breathe the life into what you really want.
    Get your ears to some quality horns mated to decent 18'' woofers.
     
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  2. RobS

    RobS RobS? More like RobDiarrhea.

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    That would be the ideal, but it seems to get speakers like that with 18" woofers I'd probably be looking at $8k and up, assuming not DIY. Unless there's 3-ways as you described under $5k

    So you're saying even if I spend a few grand on some monitors I'm still in mid-fi purgatory?

    I appreciate your perspective on this. I'm not pulling the trigger on anything yet.
     
  3. Hrodulf

    Hrodulf Prohibited from acting as an MOT until year 2050

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    What about the new JBL L100? Has anyone heard them? The old version was a decent party speaker with no aspirations to hifi. From what I’ve heard, the new one might be better quality.
     
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  4. Priidik

    Priidik MOT: Estelon

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    Yes, mid-fi doom. It's fine when people are happy there, saves them nerves, time and money.
    Your own True-Hi-Fi™ is relevant only in context of properties you are after. There is no universal solution.

    Narrow down what exactly you are after and what compromises you are willing to take.
    Small studio monitors have quite specific set of qualities that might not harmonize with hi-fi nut's goals.
    (portability, ruggedness, ease of placement / room integration, efficient amps, extreme neutrality, DSP?, some specific emphasis to pick out flaws in recordings?)
    Their first excuse of existence is being a tool for a job. That job is not to awe the listener with slam and romance.
    For the same money, perhaps a more suited set of qualities can be found elsewhere.
     
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  5. briskly

    briskly Friend

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    Relatively thin BB ply, Class D amps, and a switch-mode supply. All good for trimming weight.
    They also have a clear design flaw with pipe resonances of the port strong enough to visibly affect the FR charts. This is even worse on the 705. Stuffing the port might work for the 708 with something to fill in the low end.

    The JBL 705i and 708i already have a full crossover network installed. The language used in the marketing obscures that.
     
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  6. RobS

    RobS RobS? More like RobDiarrhea.

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    I would like the strengths of the JBL 305P: the sparkly treble, killer macrodynamics, articulate and clear bass (it's crazy how the bass tightens up when using the Convert-2). But then make it even more massive sounding, like if I'm in a movie theater.

    I can compromise on everything else. So I guess my "True-Hi-Fi™" is probably mid-fi to most audiophiles.

    So I thought maybe I should stick to nearfield monitors for an upgrade, preferably with horns. So if not monitors, what should I be looking for in passive loudspeakers that have horns and can do what I like of the 305s? Anything around $4k and below?

    I don't have a nagging wife, so ugly black boxes that can make the room rumble is fine.

    The biggest problem I have with my current loudspeakers is that midrange isn't the greatest, it's too relaxed. The transient response is too tamed, rounded. But they are superb with female vocals and bass quality is pretty good, not muddy and has decent impact. They have AMT tweeters, but I think horns would have better dispersion on-axis. Imaging is a bit better with the 305s over my loudspeakers.

    I hope that makes sense and what I'm trying to go after.

    Hmm so basically they are way overpriced? Ugh.
     
  7. murphythecat

    murphythecat Self Imposed Exile

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    with small monitors of 3k$, you can get high end mids, treble, imaging, detail retreival, but low end bass and limited dynamics.

    Generally;
    5 inch 2 ways= 2-3/10 bass
    6.5 inch 2 ways= 4-5/10 bass
    8 inch 2 ways= 6/10 bass
    10 inch 2 ways= 6-7/10 bass
    12 inch = 8/10 bass
    15 inch= 10/10 bass

    comparing my dad's jbl 4698 vs L300, a 18 inch vs a 15 inch, its not clear that a 18 inch is superior in bass.
     
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    Last edited: Oct 18, 2019
  8. Psalmanazar

    Psalmanazar Most improved member; A+

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    That depends if Trebor is after euphonic or accurate, high fidelity or "hi-fi". There are some monitors that sound like higher headroom, more accurate hi-fi speakers (Dynaudio BM), some that are typical v shaped hi-fi speakers but less euphonic to mix into (Proac Studio 100), some that are higher headroom awful hi-fi speakers(Focals), and so on. All of these straddle the line.

    There are many monitors whose main purpose of existence is to wow the clientele with slam and romance while every big decision is done on something that translates like Yamahas.
    Yeah dude I think they suck. I like the HS8 better than them for what? Less than 1/4th of the price and better in every way to me but volume and transients.
    Yeah they are. But people like the JBL sound so they get away with it.

    Honestly, soft domes are the only way for me but you might really dig the Barefoots for monitors and some big ass three way or horn for your living room. I can tolerate the Adam X series AMT and the KRK Kevlar tweeters but they are much more fatiguing than even Yamaha. I love/hate both tweeters.

    For full rangers with any woofer over 8”, you really need a separate midrange driver. Otherwise you get some pa speaker sounding horn stuff or massive old Genelec/Dyn BM15 type midrange suckout, not just a presence or crossover dip, that you know is gonna be there when you see the huge ass woofers. Big ass three ways definitely for living rooms. Some of the traditional 6.5” woofer hifi two ways can sound okay if you don’t crank them but bass they do not do.

    Massive ATC three ways are the least compressed things around but beyond your budget. Check them out at a show or shop or studio sometime. All they lack is bass weight due to aiming for the lowest distortion possible at the expense of extension. When everyone on the internet who has ever heard ATC memes ATC, the SCM 50 and bigger are the bad boys they’re talking about. They don’t really have any competition for clarity, volume and neutral mids and treble but more normal speakers beat them for bass and some professional uses like mixing and giving realistic representations of what needs to be fixed to make everything audible on a typical consumer hifi rig or car because they really are enthralling, holy shit levels of detail. I prefer some other stuff but there’s really no competitor for three ways.
     
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    Last edited: Oct 18, 2019
  9. Luckbad

    Luckbad Traded in a unicorn for a Corolla

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    I found a great deal at Guitar Center for a used pair of Dynaudio BM6A. Unfortunately, the price was too good to be true. $600 + tax/shipping.

    The tweeters are fubar.

    They sound amazing when both tweeters are working. Really lovely, non-fatiguing but detailed sound. Great punch, smooth mids. Hiss is really minimal--below audible threshold even in my very quiet room just 1m away.

    I've read that some people find them a bit dark, but that's right the heck up my alley.

    I'm almost inclined to keep them and buy replacement tweeters (~$400 total).
     
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  10. Psalmanazar

    Psalmanazar Most improved member; A+

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    Nice man! They're really great speakers.

    The tweeters can blow but so can the relays, caps, and transistors. If the tweeters are intact but not working at all sometimes, it's definitely something on the board and probably the relays. Just replace them or get a tech to do it. The well used pair I tried, you had to deck the pot to get the tweeter to come on.
     
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  11. Riotvan

    Riotvan Got lost for three weeks at Delft City Hall

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    Are both tweeters fucked? Did you try swapping them?
     
  12. Luckbad

    Luckbad Traded in a unicorn for a Corolla

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    My guess is that it's the relays. The tweeters sound great when they're active, but they flicker off and on.
     
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  13. Armaegis

    Armaegis Friend

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    The SCM25 is the smallest ported ATC that should still offer some oomph and it's not crazy expensive (hifishark shows there's one pair for really cheap in Germany... no idea if that's legit or not).

    Or just get something stupid like this: https://www.finn.no/bap/forsale/ad.html?finnkode=160032976
    That's a Danley design, with a unity/synergy horn... basically there are midrange drivers mounted into the horn, time aligned or whatever witchery is involved so you get a coherent wavefront. You'll still want some DSP as there are a couple peaks, but it's pretty good overall (I have six of them). I have a friend who has a set and uses them as home theatre speakers.
     
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  14. Senorx12562

    Senorx12562 Case of the mondays

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    Stupid and good are not mutually exclusive.
     
  15. Luckbad

    Luckbad Traded in a unicorn for a Corolla

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    Know what monitors are better than they should be? IK Multimedia iLoud Micro.

    They're tiny and sound pretty good. Maybe $200-$250 good. You're paying extra for the size, but they're nice for night listening.
     
  16. Psalmanazar

    Psalmanazar Most improved member; A+

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    The Vanatoos too. Along with the JBL 305 and KRK Rokit 5 G4. There’s a lot of good tiny speakers now. Even that JBL 104 thing isn’t too awful.
     
  17. JustAnotherRando

    JustAnotherRando My other bike is a Ferrari

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    Considering that they're $300 on Amazon and Sweetwater, that doesn't sound like the highest praise!
     
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  18. Psalmanazar

    Psalmanazar Most improved member; A+

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    They also crap out when you turn them up. But for all of the 60db lofi listeners out there who don’t know what real drums sound like? They’re great for those guys. Now we skinbashers will never be satisfied with less than 100 pounds of slam. Small speakers? They’re just tools for side work and for listening to Demigod while I work.

    Anything with less than a 5” woofer is gonna be total dog shit for listening and you’re going to hate your life when you crank it even when it’s 2 feet from your face. 3” like an Orca is what is known as a baby dick woofer. Only owning a “good” baby dick speaker is like being William H. Macy in Boogie Nights aka your wife has an ass in her cock and you hate your life right now because your wife is going to jail.
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2019
  19. Luckbad

    Luckbad Traded in a unicorn for a Corolla

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    To be fair, I can't name something in the price range that is definitively superior if you need something small. The KRK Rokit 5 G4 are $60 more and are overall better, but they hiss and sound slightly boxy. They're also considerably larger. The iLoud Micro are seriously tiny. I might keep them around for night listening because they sound good at low volume.
     
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  20. Psalmanazar

    Psalmanazar Most improved member; A+

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    How are they versus the Vanatoo and JBL 104? The KRKs do not sound good at 60 db
     

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