Nearfields for audiophile listening?

Discussion in 'Speakers' started by sashafuckinggrey, Feb 27, 2016.

  1. Armaegis

    Armaegis Friend

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    I'm curious to try out a HEDD monitor. The HEDDphone feels veiled to me, but there's something in the presentation that makes me curious to see how it fares outside of the confines of a headphone frame which I suspect are adversely affecting the sound quite a bit in such close proximity.
     
  2. Pharmaboy

    Pharmaboy Friend

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    Several years ago I did a TON of research on then-available power speakers or power studio monitors. The latter form the biggest group by far, as so many music professionals and studios use powered monitors.

    Anyway, after reading 1000s of user comments &/or reviews, I made a few conclusions:
    • If you read between the lines, most powered studio monitors sound like ass for music appreciation, though they may be ideal for the "forensic" listening studio pros do
    • Eve and Hedd monitors were among the very few about which users occasionally said they sounded really good when used simply for music listening
    • The AMT-type tweeters used in the HEDDphone may be big news in headphone circles, but they're old news in speaker design--many studio monitors use them, as do a number of high-end audio designs. Their capabilities in terms of dispersion and soundstaging can be more fully realized in the open air sound propagation of sound waves
    • And finally, whether it's computer monitors like AudioEngine or high-end studio designs--more $$ generally buys bigger/better sound, though obviously there are exceptions.
    I went through a number of powered speakers IMS and found out the hard way that saving money takes a toll on the sound (ie, if you're as obsessive about the sound of speakers as many here are of the sound of headphones).
     
  3. westermac

    westermac Friend

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    Adam Audio updated their core A-series lineup with different waveguides, woofers and Sonarworks baked into the DSP:

    https://www.adam-audio.com/en/a-series/

    I really enjoy their X-Art tweeters; if they improved their woofers along with adding Sonarworks they could be a seriously competitive option for nearfield listening/monitoring. Only downgrade is they replaced the 5in model with a 4in model. Booo.
     
  4. GuySmiley'sMonkey

    GuySmiley'sMonkey Almost "Made"

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    A newcomer here coming cap in hand and asking for advice.

    I have a $5K discretionary spending windfall that I'm contemplating putting into a 2.1 set up. I enjoy my JBL LSR305s and have done what I can to make my living space a decent listening environment, but these speakers and my room-treatment knowledge/experience all have their limits.

    Plan A involves buying a pair of Genelec 8330 smart active monitors, a 7350 sub and the corresponding GLM measuring kit. In effect, I'd be paying a $1K AUD premium for an automated room-compensation system over and above the non-smart 8030 / 7050 pairing. Has anyone here used a Genelec SAM product? Does it perform its DSP functions well?

    Is the negative impact of the listening environment on sound large enough to warrant paying the $1K premium? I probably haven't phrased the question well as you have no idea what my listening environment is. What I'm trying to get at is this: I can spend money to procure good stuff (audio equipment) or to remove or compensate for the bad stuff (nasty sound reflections etc). Is money spent on removing the bad stuff (room correction/treatment) going to get me as much bang-for-buck as money spent on providing the good stuff (audio gear)? Still not explaining myself well, but hopefully you understand what I mean.

    If I take this route I'd take advantage of the XLR AES digital inputs on the speakers as (at least as far as my understanding goes) any analogue input would be converted back to digital anyway. To achieve this I'd like a magic box that would accept digital coax/USB/optical inputs, provide an XLR AES digital output as well as digital signal attenuation controlled via remote. Does such a thing exist?

    Plan B involves just buying a pair of dumb Genelec 8040Bs or 8050Bs and leaving it at that, as I distrust my ability to integrate a sub into my system/room without messing it up. I'd have enough change to buy an affordable pre, such as the Freya Plus and/or upgrade my DAC.

    What say you? Plan A, Plan B, or an as-yet unformed plan C?
     
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2022
  5. GoodEnoughGear

    GoodEnoughGear Evil Dr. Shultz‎

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    Just a few things to note:
    • With the SAM products you will be running the signal through an ADC and DAC in the monitors. That will involve resampling etc. so it will affect your upstream DAC to some degree and you may not want that. Then again you could feed the monitors a pure digital signal and that may something useful.
    • The 7XXX subs are very flexible and can allow you to route from speakers to sub or the other way round; do 5.1 or have two sets of stereo speakers so you could use your existing JBLs as well either in tandem or separately depending how you rig it up.
    • I needed to pad down my 7050 by -6dB for a pair of 8030s as they can do 5.1, that's after lowering the sensitivity all the way. Your room may differ. Other than that integration has been pretty easy as you don't need to mess with crossover points, just do some floor crawling or use a product like GLM or Sonarworks.
    • The current monitors are Class D all the way. The last generation of AB were the "B" series which also have front-mounted monitor trim knobs which I find useful. You may or may not care about this, but going monitors-->sub the monitors trim trims the sub as well which is handy. This will be the case on the newer monitors using the rear-mounted trim as well of course, just far less handy.
    • Lastly if you can get ears on these options that is the best way to evaluate. I'd see if I can get a listen to some Neumanns in that price range as well.
    Let us know what you find!
     
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  6. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    1. The Gens are a sidegrade. JBL has subs too that go with their LSR series.
    2. Room treatment for people with normal furniture isn't needed despite what "people" say. Sure if you are in a bare reverberant room.
    3. The magic box that you speak does exist (including remote). Check out MiniDSP OpenDRC-DI.
    4. Sounds like everything you want to do is unnecessarily complex or you are over thinking things.
     
  7. GuySmiley'sMonkey

    GuySmiley'sMonkey Almost "Made"

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    @purr1n and @GoodEnoughGear

    1. Thank you very much for your advice. $4K AUD for a side grade is definitely a sobering proposition considering the price difference between the Genelecs and JBLs. Are they truly a side grade? Seems like a lot of people have been duped.

    If the Genelecs are a waste of money (for me), I guess the next port of call is to determine whether I want to spend the money improving my headphone rig, passive / active speaker set up or something else entirely.

    2. The JBL310s (10") sub costs about $1K AUD here. Does it represent the same value for money as the LSR305? By comparison the Genelec 7050 (an 8") is $1,300 AUD.
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2022
  8. Armaegis

    Armaegis Friend

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    I think it's more a case of the JBL's being very high performers for their price point, and the Genelecs beings rather meh for their price point and are known for being divisive on their sound signature.

    What options do you have locally to listen to? I like ATC myself, but there's Adam, Focal, Dynaudio, Mackie, Neumann, KRK, Kali, Boulder, Barefoot, etc, that's just scratching the surface.
     
  9. GuySmiley'sMonkey

    GuySmiley'sMonkey Almost "Made"

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    My auditioning options are nil in the "audiophile" or "pro audio" space. I live in a country where there are vast distances between major population centers. For me it's 5 hours to the nearest dealer with no reasonable means of getting there. Less than generous return policies here too.

    SBAF is the next best option for me, knowing that I'll find some folk with experience and reason. So thanks, @Armaegis for the alternatives. Still have to decide whether to upgrade speaker listening, headphone rig, or a combination of the two. I've also asked for advice here.
     
  10. Armaegis

    Armaegis Friend

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    There's nothing pro audio nearby??
    Do you have the equivalent of a Guitar Centre or MusiciansFriend anywhere close to you?
    What about looking through local classifieds ads or facebook marketplace, or your equivalent of craigslist? Surely there must be local wannabe music producers and djs who are constantly cycling through gear.

    I know @Xecuter is from Australia, maybe there are some others here who may know of shops
     
  11. Psalmanazar

    Psalmanazar Most improved member; A+

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    Yes Genelecs have always been mediocre and sell now mainly to the corporate broadcast market. Just because Genelec eqs them to be a straight line now in the crossover doesn't make them sound any better or any more revealing. The tweeters are dogshit.

    Go to a real music store and try things out.

    @Armaegis those chain stores have nothing. let's be real here. the best thing most of them stock is the yamaha hs8 and some cheap small middy monitors.

    ATC are great and do things right but are overpriced and lack bass.
    Adam went bankrupt and is owned by Focusrite now. They redesigned all of their monitors and now make a ton of awful cheap junk in China like their parent company. The original CEO now runs Eve and original designer HEDD and are still made in Germany. HEDD uses newer and better drivers than Adam.
    Mackie went bankrupt decades ago and sucks now. They're horrible and worse than anything else mentioned in this post.
    Focal and Dynaudio can be hit or miss. Some good stuff and some awful. You need to try the individual models.
    Neumann monitors are middling for what you pay. Do not believe the people drawing lines on graphs on the internet.
    KRK makes nothing but typical middy monitors and scooped boom tizz. The more expensive ones are better than their rap producer reputation.
    Kali only makes cheap shit. Total sidegrade from the cheap JBLs and way worse than the expensive ones.
    Barefoots sound big. They're fun.
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2022
  12. GuySmiley'sMonkey

    GuySmiley'sMonkey Almost "Made"

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    What would you buy, @Psalmanazar if you wanted a 2.1 system for home listening with a budget of $3.5K ($5K AUD) for speakers and amplification? Space is about 85 cubic meters and a listening distance of 2.5 meters.

    Edit: Forgot to thank you for the list and the warnings.
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2022
  13. Xecuter

    Xecuter Brush and floss your amp twice a day

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    Where are you based man? quiet a few pro audio stores in all the major cities. But if you live rural it is really hard to audition.
     
  14. GuySmiley'sMonkey

    GuySmiley'sMonkey Almost "Made"

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    Small town in the outback. Feral pig shooters - Yes. Fishermen - Yes. Home studio users and audiophiles, none that I know of LOL. That said, I'm making a five hour drive to the Gold Coast for a holiday with my family next week @Xecuter. Do you know any suitable audio stores nearby? Might be able to escape theme-park hell for a couple of hours.
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2022
  15. Xecuter

    Xecuter Brush and floss your amp twice a day

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    Not a hugee selection on the Gold coast. Usually i would send you to store dj in Brisbane. Terry at GC-hifi has ATC small and large and fyne audio. https://gc-hifi.com.au/pages/our-story
    Need to let him know in advance. It's close to the theme parks so you can have an audition while you wait.
     
  16. Psalmanazar

    Psalmanazar Most improved member; A+

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    Probably not studio monitors unless you get something fun like barefoots, big dyns, proacs etc and just happen to love that very model. I don't really like subs.
     
  17. GuySmiley'sMonkey

    GuySmiley'sMonkey Almost "Made"

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    Thanks mate. I'll investigate GC-hifi and see if I can set up an appointment. I can't really justify abandoning my family for too long. We've waited three years for this trip thanks to COVID and flooding.
     
  18. Thad E Ginathom

    Thad E Ginathom Friend

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    I was wowed by Genelecs, a couple of times. Thing is, though, I didn't hear the competition as mentioned. From later reading, I'd probably be in interested in Boulder, Barefoot, etc. If I had the money, which I never really did. I certainly could have lived with Genelecs, although I appreciate that some couldn't, or would feel over-charged.

    What do you want and why? The reason behind me wanting studio monitors was the idea of getting sound without flavour. Right now, if I went back to this stuff, a flat frequency response is the last thing I'd look for: I wouldn't hear any treble, and I'd be eq-ing any way.

    Or do you just fancy the idea? I did that too: the romantic feel of having something "professional!" Absolutely nothing wrong with that: we get our pleasure of of ownership where and how we can. In this field, though, it is nice if it does come with actual good sound. Or sound that we really, really enjoy.

    But part of the ethos of this site is not to spend money on stuff that someone or something has made us feel is good, but isn't really.
     
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  19. Armaegis

    Armaegis Friend

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    *shrug* I only mentioned those as the most generic named stores I could think of that might possibly have a worldwide presence. I've got Long & McQuade up here as my main store, but they are entirely Canadian.

    But yeah, most of those I just name dropped because they are "easy" to find in chain stores. Sounds like GuySmiley is out in the sticks and at that point stretching for the prosumer stuff may be the best you can get. I did like the old school Mackie monitors with the passive radiators though... I think they were the HR series.
     
  20. Riotvan

    Riotvan Snoofer in the Woofer

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    A pair of Dynaudio Core 59's and just hooking up my shd studio via aes is sure tempting. No messing around with all the dac's, preamps and cable bs. No need for subs either in nearfield.
    Means i would have to sell everything but it would be a lot simpler and also energy efficient. Which is something i've been thinking about recently with the absurd energy prices here.
     

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