Schiit Eitr Preview Thread

Discussion in 'Digital: DACs, USB converters, decrapifiers' started by Rotijon, Jul 17, 2017.

  1. Luckbad

    Luckbad Traded in a unicorn for a Corolla

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    Saw this on my Google Home after work.

    Went to the Schiit page.

    Saw the price.

    Ordered it.

    Came to SBAF to read up.

    Now going back to the Schiit site to read about what I just bought.
     
  2. Koth Ganesh

    Koth Ganesh Friend

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    @Luckbad, you beat me to it mate. Except I'm in India !
     
  3. FredM

    FredM Rando

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    An internal Gen 5 saves out a coax cable (re-use or buy one)
     
  4. Dino

    Dino Friend

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    I am wondering how Eitr/USB Gen 5 compares to the pro audio card solutions, as far as sound quality goes.
     
  5. Jozurr

    Jozurr Facebook Friend

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    Which converter and cables have you been using to go from the Eitr to XLR into the Yggdrasil? I already have the SU-1 with AES into the Yggdrasil and I'm wondering if the upgrade to a Gen5 direct or an Eitr will be worth it. You said there are no sonic differences between the Eitr or having a direct gen5 upgrade on the Yggdrasil - I am thinking of the following:

    1) Does having a Gen5 upgrade into the DAC itself not introduce any noise as one of the argument for good DDC (or why Schiit did not have a DDC quality conversion in the Yggdrasil itself - which is supposedly now does with the Gen5) has always been to keep the conversion outside of the DAC chassis (isolate noise to an outside box and provide only a signal into the DAC)

    2) Does introducing a cable and a transformer to convert SPDIF into AES for the Yggdrasil not degrade anything? (Extra things in the chain)

    3) If you get the Gen5 upgrade for the Yggdrasil, are all the benefits of having a Wyrd or "audiophile" USB cables useless?
     
  6. rlow

    rlow A happy woofer

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    Hi thanks for the excellent review and roundup of various comparisons. Super helpful!

    Regarding the improvements you mention using Eitr with the microRendu, could you provide any more details on how you feel the sound is improved?

    I'm considering the Gen 5 board upgrade for my Gungnir Multibit which I currently use with the microRendu - was also possibly considering moving up the the ultraRendu at some point, but considering how much you believe Eitr did 'evening the playing field' with the Sonicorbiter SE, that may not make sense anymore...

    Thanks
     
  7. Darren G

    Darren G Friend

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    Very cool to see these two new options!

    I already have the Intona box (to break the ground loop).
    I already send at 44.1, and leave it up to Yggdrasil to up-sample..

    Looks like both the Gen 5 board, and Eitr provide additional benefits of -

    1.) VCC isolation from the source.
    2.) Re-clock earlier in the input stage.

    Looking forward to reading any impressions others have of one over the other, but I'll likely end up buying the Eitr if the sound is equivalent.
     
  8. zerodeefex

    zerodeefex SBAF's Imelda Marcos

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    I answered this on the front page. It's better than any converter I've used but not as good as my Lynx pcie card or theta data 3.
     
  9. Darren G

    Darren G Friend

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    One question -

    Re-clocking the packet USB data to an SPDIF stream can do no harm, but given that Yggdrasil already re-clocks the SPDIF stream anyway, are others hearing benefits?
     
  10. Darren G

    Darren G Friend

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    Nevermind, too late. Ordered the EITR. Might as well move VCC outside of the Yggdrasil entirely, and not have to wait for turn-around on the Gen 5 upgrade :p
     
  11. RiddleyWalker

    RiddleyWalker Friend

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    Considering taking the plunge and replacing my Gustard U12 with this bad boy.
     
  12. Torq

    Torq MOT: Headphone.com

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    I've not compared them directly, so I'd be inclined to listen to @zerodeefex.

    My personal experience, referenced here, was that with the DACs I've tested with, the various pro audio cards were not quite at the level of the Aries or RedNet solutions, but the difference, if I tried to quantify it would be on the order of 1% and really only relevant in super-critical audition-style listening. That's a different so slight that it's hard to even evaluate reliably, so take it with a pinch of salt.

    Eitr and USB Gen 5, with Bifrost MB, Gungnir MB, Yggdrasil and the Spring DAC were all indistinguishable to me compared to the Aries, which would for me put it at, or above, the pro-audio cards (and a whole lot less hassle), but again that's a triangulated evaluation not a direct comparison.
     
  13. Scott Kramer

    Scott Kramer Friend

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    Do we know for sure the VCXO reclocking in the gun/Yggdrasil applied to the G2/G3 USB and now the G5– or maybe they purposely don't apply it on the G5, since they do a simple (looks like flip-flops) reclock* on the isolated side outside the CM3361?

    *Which is really cool by the way... they are not tied to the performance of the CM6631, now its just a black box.
     
  14. Darren G

    Darren G Friend

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    I am looking forward to hearing the EITR though I am not expecting dramatic improvements, 1% will suffice.

    The Intona solution improved USB for me, but I knew I had a ground loop without it. I still switch back and forth between USB and TOSLINK though. TOSLINK may have the advantage of not picking up EMI noise, no ground, no VCC, but again, it's a small diff.

    AES still holds some appeal, but at $800 for a card plus cables, it crosses my spending limit at the moment; I'd rather save it for another set of cans.

    To whatever degree USB processing generates noise (probably not much), I figure the EITR will move that outside of the Yggdrasil case. For < $200 shipped, worth some experimenting if nothing else.
     
  15. Darren G

    Darren G Friend

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    The manual implies re-clocking is done on SPDIF streams at least (less clear on USB, but there would have to packet->stream clocking at some level) With the EITR, I don't see how it's possible for the Yggdrasil/Gungnir Multibit to know that the stream has already been re-clocked. So presume re-clocking a re-clocked stream (no harm done). I guess with the Gen 5 board they can know the stream is already re-clocked, but just guessing the stream goes into the same pipeline and VCXO re-clocking is still applied.
     
  16. neogeosnk

    neogeosnk Friend

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    Instant buy, should help with work modi 2 setup. Still wonder if this would be a better option than the Aes16e on my main rig.
     
  17. Torq

    Torq MOT: Headphone.com

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    I built the cable myself and I use a Neutrik NADITBNC-MX balun (adpater/impedance transformer). There are other options for the balun - I used the Neutrik as I have various of them hanging around for other purposes.

    I either got indistinguishable results or Eitr/USB Gen 5 was slightly ahead. The differences are small when detectable. If you're never going to use the I2S output on the SU-1, aren't ever going to run a non-reclocking DAC (which may, or may not give one or other of the units a bigger advantage), AND can recover enough of the cost of the SU-1 to fully fund an Eitr/USB Gen 5 and the necessary balun then it might be worth switching. If it was me, I probably wouldn't bother.

    However, if I was moving from USB I would definitely take the Eitr or USB Gen 5 approach over the SU-1.

    There's theory and then there's practice. In theory, practice and theory are the same. In practice, they aren't. I could not tell any difference between Eitr or the USB Gen 5 board with Yggdrasil in my chain. I would, from that, be inclined to think that whatever noise might be generated by the USB Gen 5 board is fully resolved by it's isolation (or wasn't a factor in the first place).

    Compared to?

    The native AES output from my Aries doesn't sound any better than via Eitr + cable + transformer. But as been covered already, unless you're using AES3 sub-codes the difference between COAX S/PDIF and AES/EBU is the electrical interface - and that's about balanced lines and impedance values.

    So, no, I would say there is no audible difference.

    You might find differences with very high-sensitivity measurement equipment, but since we're isolated from noise and dealing with more robust, digital, signalling, I wouldn't even expect a difference, and certainly do not hear one.

    Historically I have felt that I got a better result using the AES input into Yggdrasil vs. the COAX or BNC ones. That is as likely to be a result of the balanced connection and common mode noise rejection in my specific environment than anything else. Eitr into AES (adapted) vs. Eitr into COAX or BNC wasn't reliably discernible for me.


    I think so.

    With Wyrd I've never heard an improvement unless there was audible noise getting onto the line somehow. That was only from seriously fucked up USB sources. Otherwise it's more about fixing issues with low USB-power or drop-outs. Wyrd was a "fix it because it isn't working properly" rather than a "makes a qualitative difference" solution for me.

    As for "audiophile" USB cables ... outside of those which completely break the power-line connection from the source and allow you either run without it (for USB receivers/interfaces that don't require power) or replace it with an independent filtered/low-noise supply, I think they always WERE useless. Something like the LH Labs "Revive", or the USB cables I build, will do something useful here (if used on their own) ... but Eitr and the USB Gen 5 boards make them fundamentally unnecessary in my evaluations.
     
  18. Torq

    Torq MOT: Headphone.com

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    There's not much more to say, absent a detailed write-up.

    It's a general improvement in resolution and detail, in some cases micro-dynamics seem to benefit - but that might simply be an effect of the increased resolution (no, they're not the same thing, but improvements in one sometimes beget apparent differences in the other, for me at least), and a blacker background. In general, the blacker the background the more vivid and separated things tend to sound, and there's some of that in evidence here ... but the detail/blackness are the primary identifiable differences.

    It's worth noting that as least as big a benefit is the results of long-term listening. While I've never found the units I tested with to be fatiguing at all, listening sessions did get longer, and I was more eager to listen again, when using the new interfaces than without.

    The only reason I could see to go with anything other than the SonicorbiterSE + Eitr vs. Sonore's other offerings was if you needed to stay in USB-land to take advantage of higher sample rates and/or multi-rate DSD. No S/PDIF interface will help you there. USB out from the SonicorbiterSE is not great in my opinion (though it's better than the optical output unless you have a re-clocking DAC), but Eitr/USB Gen 5 beat both the Sonicorbiter SE and the microRendu quite handily - with no need to twat about with funky PSUs that cost as mucn/more than the interface in the first place.

    And unless you want to remotely locate your DAC or use a network audio model, like Roon, I'd skip the Sonore bits entirely.
     
  19. bengo

    bengo Friend

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  20. Merrick

    Merrick A lidless ear

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    @Torq At this point the question becomes is there any reason to use any interface other than USB for anything other than Lynx or Rednet setups? Sounds like the Eitr and/or Gen 5 upgrade bests almost every other solution out there.
     

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