Schiit (MultiBit) Bifrost

Discussion in 'Digital: DACs, USB converters, decrapifiers' started by FlySweep, Oct 2, 2015.

  1. tg123

    tg123 Rando

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    If you are looking for a black Bifrost. It is now available on the Schiit website.
     
  2. Ryogo

    Ryogo Rando

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    Torq,
    I'm quite confused with your post. Because I have Bifrost v2.00 board with Gungnir-Analog v1.02 (AK4399) board installed and it does cycles the input lights on power up.
     
  3. Torq

    Torq MOT: Headphone.com

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    Then maybe the v2.00 boards do it with both D/S and multi-bit boards installed. Earlier versions didn't (or at least, mine didn't).

    Or maybe the v2.00 boards run firmware that can support either D/S or multi-bit without needing to be returned to the factory (though Schiit's website suggests not).
     
  4. Ryogo

    Ryogo Rando

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    Torq,
    yepp, thought so. Too bad there's no confirmation from Schiit as this could be crucial for deciding to go for multi-bit upgrade.
     
  5. Torq

    Torq MOT: Headphone.com

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    Well, if you're comfortable taking the thing apart, and know your motherboard revision, it's a simple email to [email protected] to find out. Though they may just say "no" regardless so as to avoid lots of people taking stuff apart in ways that cause issues/liability concerns.

    Right now I don't think they sell the multi-bit boards with a self-install option, so there's not much to decide on.
     
  6. Lenroot77

    Lenroot77 Friend

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    I just couldn't pass up a Black Bifrost last week... picked up a 4490 to keep around for "the future" MB upgrade. :)
     
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  7. Lenroot77

    Lenroot77 Friend

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    A while back Mike made a comment about listing to a "new" bifrost at his desk and also made the comment "good things come to those who wait".

    I'm really curious if he was referring to a Bifrost with the new USB 5 upgrade or maybe there is something still to come in the hopefully not too far future?

    God knows if I send my bifrost out for the MB upgrade, we'll get an update a month later! :eek:
     
  8. FallingObjects

    FallingObjects Pay It Forward

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    I don't have any evidence or google-fu speculation to back this up, but I wouldn't be surprised if there was gonna be an upgrade to the bifrost soon. Between the Modi Multi, and the Gen 5, it'd make sense if they had been working on an upgrade to their other multibit products.

    Right now there's very little reason to get a new Bifrost Multibit over the Modi Multibit, unless you believe in the sonic differences. Even for used stuff, the Bifrost Multibit is double the price of a Modi Multibit, and is of a questionable improvement at best from what I've read.

    For me personally, the 2 year warranty extension on my used Bifrost Multibit would be nice, but I take good enough care of my stuff (and don't suffer from enough USB nervosa) to justify the upgrade, when the Eitr will work with almost any DACs I use in the future.

    Bifrost in general have the potential for upgrading going for them though, but the Eitr cuts into that need as well, which is why I'd expect to see something else other than the gen 5 USB soon.

    Or who knows, maybe the Bifrost upgrades in general just bleed money for Schiit, so they're not focusing on providing them anyways.
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2017
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  9. SSL

    SSL Friend

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    Mike has already mentioned the existence of a Bifrost mb uprade prototype some time ago. Just a matter of waiting.
     
  10. FallingObjects

    FallingObjects Pay It Forward

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    Yeah, I think @Lenroot77 might had been thinking more in the 3-4 month timeframe ("Near future"), but I don't want to speak for them on that.

    I'm fine sitting on my hands waiting for the post-honeymoon reviews on a Multibit 2 upgrade for the Bifrost.

    It'd be even cooler if we could bundle upgrades (Get the new multibit AND Gen5 usb) and get a discount on that though.
     
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  11. Scott Kramer

    Scott Kramer Friend

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    Speculation only ;)
    I suspect Mike's special Bifrost (***) was the raw way to truly hear their new G5 board, with no VCXO reclocking normalizing it out like the gun/Yggdrasil, maybe this even outperforms their VCXO reclock. But yeah, probably always some new multibit filter/board brewing!

    The Bifrost Multibit/G5 may be the little gem out there.

    EITR's a nice option in situations, but avoid it if not really needed!

    Used a small monospace font to try & show the chain:

    Yggdrasil

    USB-->[EITR-->usb to i2s-->i2s reclock-->spdif output chip-->transformer]-->spdif cable-->[optional AES trans]-->[spdif input chip (clock recover)-->i2s-->VCXO reclock-->SHARC DSP-->DAC CHIP]

    Yggdrasil
    USB-->[G5-->usb to i2s-->i2s reclock-->VCXO reclock-->SHARC DSP-->DAC CHIP]

    GUN
    USB-->[EITR-->usb to i2s-->i2s reclock-->spdif output chip-->transformer]-->spdif cable-->[spdif input chip (clock recover)-->i2s-->VCXO reclock-->SHARC DSP-->DAC CHIP]

    GUN
    USB-->[G5-->usb to i2s-->i2s reclock-->VCXO reclock-->SHARC DSP-->DAC CHIP]

    BI
    USB-->[EITR-->usb to i2s-->i2s reclock-->spdif output chip-->transformer]-->spdif cable-->[spdif input chip (PLL clock recover)-->i2s-->SHARC DSP-->DAC CHIP]

    *** BI
    USB-->[G5-->usb to i2s-->i2s reclock-->SHARC DSP-->DAC CHIP]

    MOBY
    USB-->[EITR-->usb to i2s-->i2s reclock-->spdif output chip-->transformer]-->spdif cable-->[spdif input chip (PLL clock recover)-->i2s-->SHARC DSP-->DAC CHIP]

    *MOBY i2s
    -->SHARC DSP-->DAC CHIP]

    Shorter's not necessarily better, bet the BI/MOBY would benefit with a VCXO reclock... trying give a diff perspective on the dacs and don't get *too* bat-shit excited over the eitr as cool as it is, especially when you can do the G5.

    And I'll try to flesh this out (learning the circuit): http://www.superbestaudiofriends.or...t-eitr-preview-thread.4729/page-6#post-150995

    [ you can be absolutely perfect, but you're up against that red wall, the spdif receiver/chip ( and its sundry performance ) not the dac chip (or sharc chip if:multibit)

    the yellow's the salvage process... sooo is it redundant if not yellow?

    * http://www.superbestaudiofriends.org/index.php?threads/modi-multibit-i2s-input-mod.3492/
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2017
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  12. landroni

    landroni Friend

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    Here's what @baldr said back then:
    (emphasis mine)

    While Schiit does claim "USB, fixed" with Eitr / USB Gen 5, improvements in DDC realm have been consistently described as minor, marginal improvements. And I don't believe that Eitr was ever characterized as "hair raising" by those who've had experience with it...
     
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  13. WutDaFunk

    WutDaFunk Rando

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    I need some advice. As someone who doesn't use FLACs or files that differ in sample rates (I only use Spotify Premium), would it even be worth it to go with the multibit or should I just get the regular 4490 version? I'm planning on getting a Jotunheim to go along with it, and pairing them with either the ZMF Atticus or Eikon. I also thought about getting a Modi Multibit but I prefer to have a cleaner stack unless it's that much better.
     
  14. Luckbad

    Luckbad Traded in a unicorn for a Corolla

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    Please introduce yourself! http://www.superbestaudiofriends.org/index.php?threads/must-read-for-new-members.3/

    As far as I'm concerned, if you're using Spotify and not lossless files, you're probably spending too much money even getting a Jotunheim. If you haven't had a proper DAC and amp before, I'd grab a Modi/Magni and see how you like it.
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2017
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  15. The Alchemist

    The Alchemist MOT: Schiit - Here to help!

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    I have to agree with @Luckbad on his suggestion. If you are not listening to higher resolution files then I would go with a Modi/Magni Combo. If you do decide to start listening to high-rez files, then move up to a Bifrost Multibit (although the 4490 is awesome too) and maybe a Valhalla 2 (depending on how much power you need for your headphones. It also depends on your budget. If you get serious with high resolution files and have a good set of headphones, then you might even want to move up to a even a better DAC/Amp Combo. But make no mistake, the Modi/Magni combo is no joke. You will be pleased.
     
  16. landroni

    landroni Friend

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    @WutDaFunk
    I will only point out that what is probably meant by higher resolution files in the posts above is lossless 44.1 KHz PCM (i.e. standard redbook CDs). This as opposed to Spotify's lossy encodings...
     
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  17. Kattefjaes

    Kattefjaes Mostly Harmless

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    Err, this makes no sense. A better DAC will give you better reproduction of what's there, telling people that you only need a more expensive DAC to listen to "hi res" music is just incorrect.

    You will get a massive quality increase with listening to Redbook via a better DAC. Yes, a Yggdrasil has more effective bits of accuracy than a Bifrost, but it's doing its damnedest to reproduce an oversampled and filtered audio stream. It doesn't sound awesome because you bought some upsampled stuff from hirestracks.com, it sounds awesome because it's an awesome DAC, and you're feeding it good source material.

    Most people never even get close to hearing everything that's available in Redbook, let alone higher bitrates/sample rates. A TOTL DAC like a Yggdrasil gets you close. There's no reason to stop at Modi Multibit or Bifrost just because you're feeding it 44.1/16 bit.

    The specs of Redbook were very well chosen- more dynamic range than we can hear, and a Nyquist frequency that is well over the hearing range of even quite young kids. While it's nice to have a less steep filter sometimes (possible with a higher sample rate) so there's no ringing/roll-off in the audible top end, often your ears or transducers roll off way before.

    Moreover, the quality of the mastering is vastly more important for how nice the music sounds.

    No, don't choose between Schiit DACs based on whether you buy "high res" files. Choose your DAC because you like the sound, and it fits your budget (and sometimes because it stacks with your amp and is available in black, ahem). If your favourite album is suddenly available as a pristine new transfer from the master tapes in high res, by all means, grab it because it's an awesome master, but don't go automatically rebuying all your music as "hi res" as it will cost you a fortune, and gain you little or nothing.

    It's great to record at higher res and higher bit depths, to avoid quantisation errors across edit operations and give you a better noise floor, but the advantages are a lot more debatable for an end-user just listening.

    There's a reason why Schiit like to say “DACs for the music you have, not the music you have to buy,” Mike Moffat considers 44.1KHz/16 bit reproduction the main priority for his DACs- which is a typically informed and pragmatic stance.

    If you're driven nuts by the feeling you're missing out, consider becoming the sort of person who hunts really good pressings on vinyl, perhaps. That's where things start getting really hardcore. I don't have the space, the time or the money to do that, but listen to music with someone who does, and it's a revelation.


    What @Luckbad did mention, which is relevant, was listening to lossily-compressed source material- which is a completely different thing. Lossy material can still have high sample rates and bit depths, but the lossy compression throws away "complexity", using psycho-acoustic models of things like acoustic masking, to work out what's least noticeable to leave out. He's dead right in that case, that if you listen to compressed Spotifty, or MP3s from Amazon etc., it might be a waste to use a high-end DAC. It's more the difference of listening to FLACs instead of MP3, rather than any question of "hi res" files though. It's important not to mix these two things up.

    With lossy stuff, you will still hear an improvement with a better DAC, but it would be a bit daft to buy an expensive DAC to listen to it. A better DAC will make it easier to hear the imperfections introduced by the lossy compression, too; there's no such thing as a free lunch. It's always an easy win to tell people to listen to lossless sources.

    (I hope that makes sense.. coffee is still soaking in. Why do I always feel an urge to try and explain confusing stuff so early?)
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2017
  18. winders

    winders Know-it-all boomer, prob racist

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    I don't know. I find that my Modi Multibit does a really nice job with iTunes lossy Red Book files. Yggdrasil does much better! Spotify Premium uses 320kbps lossy compression that is supposed to be as good as AAC files at equal bitrates.

    Sure, the lossless files are better....but a better multibit DAC should be be better here.

    Edit: I was composing as Kattefjaes posted!
     
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  19. WutDaFunk

    WutDaFunk Rando

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    Thank you for the replies! I do have some experience with DACs and amps (although I've only used 3 versions of the Dragonfly), and the best headphones I have at the moment are just a pair of MSR7's, but the reasons I'm even interested in upgrading is because I'm not completely satisfied with my current setup and I want to use the DAC + amp with a monitor setup on my PC. I mainly listen to electronic music which is why I use Spotify, but I also listen to 80's music as well and actually plan on getting into high res for that because of the very few high res files I've tried in the past, I actually notice a significant difference. I guess I'm just trying to get an end game setup, which is why I'm visiting Zach of ZMF very soon to demo the Atticus and Eikon.

    I'll introduce myself tomorrow when it's not 4 am :D
     
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  20. Luckbad

    Luckbad Traded in a unicorn for a Corolla

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    Yep, I meant lossless (or at least less lossy) files. Most of what I listen to is lossless Redbook. Just trying to confuse everyone. Thanks for the clarification!

    @WutDaFunk I think you're on the right track. You might still want the Modi Multibit over the current Bifrost Multibit if reviews here are to be believed. I won't hear the Modi Multibit until tomorrow or so, but I felt the Bifrost Multibit wasn't as coherent as I like.
     
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