Sennheiser HD600 HD650 HD660S Analysis

Discussion in 'Headphone Measurements' started by purr1n, Oct 29, 2017.

  1. Serious

    Serious Inquisitive Frequency Response Plot

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    Tbh I think you're all reading too much into the measurements, especially the CSDs. Looking at the FR it's really no wonder the HD650 and HD650 have "slower decay" in the midrange sub 2kHz. The FR measures slightly less linear resulting in slightly bigger phase errors which makes decay look slower. I bet the excess phase or excess group delay plots are effectively 0 across the whole range meaning you could use EQ to get an HD650 have the same CSDs as an HD600.

    On the other hand I don't doubt the subjective impressions at all. But I feel it's more coincidence that the square waves and CSDs correlate with the subjective impressions. I say this because I've seen stuff measure with very good IR/square waves that didn't sound that way at all.
     
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2017
  2. purr1n

    purr1n Burned out

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    I wouldn't read too much into CSDs for decay / transients. CSDs are most useful for seeing ringing, and especially hidden peaks (dip in FR that turns out to be a peak). The are also slightly useful for seeing internal cup reflections. http://www.superbestaudiofriends.org/index.php?threads/csds-and-what-they-tell-us.65/page-2

    The 500Hz square waves are probably only good for comparing in a contained set - that is similar headphones or seeing the effects of varying source impedance. I wouldn't compare them against others. We don't have enough data on 500Hz waves (here done by me, not someone else's) to say much yet.

    Subjectively, the HD600 does sound faster than the HD800. I've never thought the HD800 to be a particularly fast sounding driver. I am not obsessed about drivers sounding like fast orthos or stats though.
     
  3. ruht

    ruht Rando

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  4. Walderstorn

    Walderstorn Friend

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    Interesting because that's not my impression at all (treble-wise) seems a little bit "shrieky" with 0 foam to me.
    I have to buy new pads, these are like 4y old.
     
  5. Prydz

    Prydz Friend

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    Nice! My HD600s are from 1999(new pads tho). I think ill order new drivers actually, instead of HD660S.
     
  6. Serious

    Serious Inquisitive Frequency Response Plot

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    @Walderstorn that sounds like what I meant. Removing the foam itself makes it shoutier, sharper, more forward/brighter. I don't like the HD600's treble anyway. You can mask it with foam or slightly smooth the upper mids with back damping, but that all doesn't really change the inherent driver characteristics. The HD800 driver sounds significantly smoother with less of that upper treble sizzle to me. Part of it is the 12 and 24kHz peak I bet, along with rising response in between. Both don't have smooth treble by speaker standards, though.

    Yes, agreed.
    I didn't believe you at first, so I compared the HD800 and HD600 again, but I think you're actually right. Despite the compression and grain, HD600 still manages to sound faster than the HD800. HD800 has way cleaner decay though. Still, I wouldn't classify the HD600 as a fast sounding headphone, either. The difference I felt was far smaller than between HD800 and Utopia or SR009 for example.
     
  7. purr1n

    purr1n Burned out

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    Yes just a tad. ATH-AD2000 is faster than HD600. Utopia still sounds like the fastest dynamic out there. Grado is about ATH-AD2000 speed, hence it's appeal; but crappy / charming frequency response.
     
  8. purr1n

    purr1n Burned out

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    HD660S compared to HD6XX Frequency Response

    NOTES:

    • Massdrop HD6XX is measures slightly differently from the 2016 HD650 pair. The HD6XX has slightly less bass and more upper mids than HD650.
    • The 2016 HD650 plots is not indicated here - see first post for measurement.
    • This is a fresh HD6XX pair that I have never measured before.

    YELLOW = HD660S
    LT GREY = HD6XX

    HD660S vs HD6XX frequency response.png
     
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2017
  9. purr1n

    purr1n Burned out

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    500 square wave

    BLUE = HD600 (dark screen)
    YELLOW = HD660S
    DARK GREY = HD6XX
    square wave.png
     
  10. Titus Pullo

    Titus Pullo Rando

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    Makes me wonder how the silver lining HD 600 would compare square wave wise. That's my favorite of the Sennheiser 6X0 line as stuff tends to disappear into the fuzziness on the older 580/600 I've heard.
     
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2017
  11. Puma Cat

    Puma Cat Almost "Made"

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    Sorry, I'm still behind on my headphone lexicon and therefore a little bit confused. What is the difference between an HD660 and HD660S? Or HD800 and HD800S? Does the S suffix designate some sort of mod?
     
  12. chakku

    chakku Friend

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    There is no HD660, it's just the HD660S.
     
  13. TeskR

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    As @chakku said the HD660 does not exist, however, with regards to the HD800(s), apparently the S stands for symmetrisch (which is German for balanced) and the frequency response of the S variant is warmer (with increased bass distortion) and has reduced energy in the infamous treble spike.
     
  14. wnmnkh

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    Argh... I think it is schwarz (means black). See both HD800S and HD660S are pure black-colored headphones? It's color I think. I believe someone said basically same thing on this thread or other thread earlier...
     
  15. Puma Cat

    Puma Cat Almost "Made"

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    Thanks, guys. I was seeing a lot of posts just referring to the HD 660, so I didn't know what the S suffix designated.
     
  16. Ardacer

    Ardacer Almost "Made"

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    So correct me if I'm wrong, by measurements alone, it would seem that the old ones, 600, 650, 6xx are a bit superior to the 660s?
     
  17. Vtory

    Vtory Audiophile™

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    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    OMG, I've long assumed that hd6xx (grey on the lower pic) was a renamed (and recolored) hd650 (grey on the upper pic).
    But measurements seem that 6xx is closer to 600 (blue on the upper pic) in terms of FR, particularly for 1k-5k range
     
  18. chakku

    chakku Friend

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    HD6XX is a renamed/colored HD650, what you're looking at is likely the difference between an older HD650 and newer one. They (along with the HD600) get quiet updates all the time.
     
  19. TeskR

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    Yeah, both symmetrisch and schwarz were mentioned in the speculation thread, as both are black and come with balanced cables. Unsure if its meaning has ever been confirmed by Sennheiser either way.
     
  20. Dino

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