Videogame Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'Geek Cave: Computers, Tablets, HT, Phones, Games' started by sphinxvc, Oct 9, 2015.

Tags:
  1. MuppetFace

    MuppetFace Sultana of Seafoam Green - Moderator

    Staff Member Pyrate
    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2015
    Likes Received:
    2,600
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    lake of mud
    Home Page:
    **** TL;DR - WARNING ****


    @TwoEars

    The explanation of the Catalyst's function and subsequently why the Reapers existed was already in the core game: it created the Reapers to harvest organic life once it reached a certain point of evolutionary development. Specifically, when organics made synthetics, the synthetics would inevitably rebell and war would ensue. So to give future organic life a chance, the more advanced civilizations were ground up into paste and crammed into a sentient arc ship that stored the collective memory of that civilization. The Star Child tells us this much without the DLC.

    We also know from ME1 that the Citadel and Mass Relays were Reaper technology that were a sort of "trap." Once organics became advanced enough to discover and use these tools that were left for them by their "mysterious benefactors," they would develop and spread along predictable pathways and thus the Reapers could more easily harvest them when the end of the cycle came.

    The original writers' had an ending planned that is sometimes referred to as "the dark energy crisis." Originally, the Reapers' existence was going to be attributed to an ancient race becoming aware of dark energy: the other side of the coin for mass effect energy, the residue that was left behind every time the mass effect was put into use. They realized that dark energy would eventually cause all the stars in the galaxy to die out, so they decided to turn their race into an arc ship so they could freely travel the galaxy trying to come up with a solution. Other advanced races were subsequently harvested each cycle to add to the "think tank." This explains a few things: why Tali was sent on her mission to study the dying star, why the Reapers were obsessed with the human race (due to our vast genetic diversity), why the Reapers started building a "Human Reaper" ahead of the harvest (as a last ditch effort to fulfill their purpose: they saw our diversity as a possible boon), and even why the name of the series is Mass Effect.

    It also gives you a crucial decision to make: side with the Reapers for better odds of saving the galaxy---maybe the universe---or save your species and try to go it alone. Compare that to what we got instead: Shepard *already* showed peace was possible between organics and synthetics, so the Catalyst was already proven wrong by the time we met it. Originally we were going to be faced with a legitimate moral quandary in finding out the Reapers had a legitimately important function. A sort of "does the means justify the ends" dilemma.

    All that got thrown out at the last minute for the whole organic vs synthetic thing, which was admittedly always one of the issues present in Mass Effect, but using that as the underlying reason for the Reaper's existence felt shoehorned. Like "yo dawg we heard you were gonna be killed by synthetics, so we built these synthetics to kill you so you won't be killed by those other synthetics." .....Right.

    What the Leviathan DLC added was the answer to the question "who created the catalyst?" And that answer was... Cthulhu aka Reapers but just an original organic version. Which does explain why all the Reapers in ME3 look like Harbinger, cuz they were based on the species who created the catalyst, the first species to be harvested. Buuuut that kinda flies in the face of why Sovereign and the Human Reaper were so completely different looking. See, originally, each Reaper was going to be unique in appearance, resembling the species from which it was harvested. But that got thrown out the window at the last minute too.

    So really, the ending to Mass Effect 3 *did* come out of nowhere, and the Leviathan DLC doesn't really do much to fix the inconsistencies and plot holes that result from it. Because practically everything about ME3 was last minute. Because the original head writer was assigned to the Star Wars MMO.

    I suppose the presence of the Leviathans does answer one more question: why some species eons ago cared about the war between organics and synthetics. Apparently the Leviathans were worshipped as gods by slave races, and they noticed their slaves were dying out because they kept making killer robots. Soooo... instead of just telling them NOT to make killer robots (y'know, with their mind control powers and status as gods), they made this AI to come up with a solution.

    I'm sorry, but the ending to ME3---with or without the Leviathans---is just boneheaded and ultimately unsatisfying to me.
     
  2. %20 Oddity

    %20 Oddity Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2016
    Likes Received:
    494
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    Poland
    So the first Pathologic alpha came out, titled "Marble Nest", and here I find out that despite that every second line in the Kickstarter and the backer portal saying otherwise, it's only available on Windows. Which sucks. But Pathologic is one of my favorite games ever (that I hate actually playing), which p. much shaped the way I think about stories in video games and the creeping metanarration trend, so I'll probably spend some money to finally fix my PC for that. I already spent a shitload of cash on the KS, after all.
     
  3. TwoEars

    TwoEars Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2016
    Likes Received:
    2,006
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Holy crap.. haha.

    Yeah - I won't argue with you that the ending of ME3 could have been better. Would the dark matter theory have made for a more interesting ending? Being able to actually side with the reapers? Yupp - that would have been pretty cool. The indoctrination theory would also have been a spectacular ending, but BioWare has pretty much denied that's what's going on.



    But for me personally I think the current "organics vs synthetics" overarching story is good enough, it's a good enough reason for the reapers, the citadel and the catalyst to exist. But it was executed poorly and for many I think that ending came out of nowhere. What the Leviathan DLC does in my mind is that it prepares the player a bit for that ending, makes it feel less sudden and forced. Is it perfect? No. But I do think it helps a great deal with giving ME3 a rounder and more coherent feel overall.

    And when you say that "shepard already showed peace was possible between organics and synthetics" I'm not sure I fully buy into that. Sure - my Shep also brokered peace between the geth and the quarians but that's just an isolated incident that takes place in the blink of an eye compared to the time scale of the cosmos. It's possible that on a long enough time scale the catalyst might be right. So I think the organics vs synthetics conundrum is valid enough. But I probably agree that the dark matter story, and the possibility of actually siding with the reapers, has more potential.

    So overall I think the organics vs synthetics story is good enough. But it was executed poorly and no one likes the blue, red and green choice. Especially not since some one of the choices kill off your squadmates and destroys the relays etc. And I've also heard the same thing as you that the current ending was slapped on at last minute, and I think it was done differently than how BioWare normally handles story. For the rest of the games I think the entire team to a large degree sat down and discussed which way they wanted the story to go. But for the new ending in ME3 I think the two lead-designers just locked themselves in a room and came up with it themselves, which didn't work out too well.

    I will also say that out of all the Mass Effect games I probably like ME3 the best.... except for the ending. ME1 probably has the best story, but by far the worst gameplay. ME2 is a good mix of story and gameplay and gathering your team is great fun, but in retrospect the story is kind of stupid and all you're doing is taking on the collectors. The final ending scene in ME2 even downplays your actions when it shows all the reapers coming right after you've destroyed the collector base. In essence all of ME2 is an intermission and sort of pointless apart from gathering your team. ME3 has the best gameplay and graphics and while no one likes the ending I think it hits a lot of high notes. The Krogan, Salarians and Turian story arc and the Geth and Quarians story arc are absolutely fantastic. And the Citadel DLC is great fun too.

    As for the shape of that Reaper looking like a human I've heard it said that it was a tribute to the humans for being the first to take down a reaper, but yeah... it's cheesy and didn't need to be in the game.

    If you plan to give ME3 another run I can really recommend the nexus mods in case you haven't tried them:

    http://www.nexusmods.com/masseffect3/mods/top/

    The EGM and ALOT mods are amazing! :)

    (ok - thought I was going to write a short answer but look where that got me)
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2016
  4. sphinxvc

    sphinxvc Gear Master (retired)

    Staff Member Pyrate BWC
    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2015
    Likes Received:
    3,320
    Trophy Points:
    113
     
  5. Mystic

    Mystic Mystique's Spiritual Advisor

    Pyrate Contributor
    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2016
    Likes Received:
    2,765
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    U.S.
    :eek:

    Be still my beating heart.
     
  6. Mystic

    Mystic Mystique's Spiritual Advisor

    Pyrate Contributor
    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2016
    Likes Received:
    2,765
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    U.S.
    That plus standalone uncharted expansion. Based Naughty Gods.
     
  7. MuppetFace

    MuppetFace Sultana of Seafoam Green - Moderator

    Staff Member Pyrate
    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2015
    Likes Received:
    2,600
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    lake of mud
    Home Page:
    I'm *not* a big Hideo Kojima fan, but I was really looking forward to Silent Hills. I expected his new game Death Stranding to be quite a departure from that project (no longer being tied to Konami and all), but holy shit. I honestly don't know WTF to make of any of this, and I kinda like that? I just hope the gameplay is more interesting and confounding like PT's was and not just the usual Kojima action / stealth / survival snoozer.


     
  8. HitmanFluffy

    HitmanFluffy Hoping to see real genitals someday!

    Anti-SBAF PSYOPS Banned
    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2015
    Likes Received:
    1,532
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    Austin, Texas
    Not worshipping Kojima? Blasphemy! The man is from the future:


    Jokes aside, PT dying was an absolute tragedy, that was an example of the kind of lateral, creative thinking that we need but rarely see in game design these days. I like to think MGSV's awfulness was all on Konami and that he will come good with Death Stranding, as he might do better with less constraints.
     
  9. SoupRKnowva

    SoupRKnowva Official SBAF South Korean Ambassador

    Pyrate Contributor
    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2015
    Likes Received:
    4,318
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    Austin, TX
    Been making a concerted effort to get back into gaming the last several months. But I've got pretty limited time what with school full time.

    But I played and absolutely loved all of Doom 2016, what a game. It's stunning to look at(has probably the best temporal AA I've ever seen), but it also runs like a dream. Fantastic gunplay mixed with some great labyrinthian level design. Gun upgrade mechanics that don't feel just tacked on for no reason. Enemies that ramp up in difficulty but don't feel cheap. I can't really say enough good things about Doom. Except maybe there isn't any single player DLC yet!

    I attempted a few other games since then, but nothing really stuck for me, school basically took back over. But now that the term is winding down, and since I bought several games this last weekend..

    I played Titanfall 2. I don't play MP though, no time for that sort of time sink in my life. I only paid 28 bucks so I don't feel upset only playing the campaign. Though it is very short, basically beat it in two sittings. It's a pretty game for what it is, running on a decade old, though upgraded, source engine. Though it also does run very well. Machincally the game is pretty tight, not to the level of Doom, and a lot of it does feel pretty tokeny, things feel tacked on. But this is where the short length helps it out, nothing has time to overstay it's welcome. And as cliche as the comraderie is with your mech, it's still pretty awesome.

    Last night though, I started playing Rise of the Tomb Raider, and holy hell, that might be the best looking game I've ever seen. Maybe any one part of the graphical presentation isn't the absolute best, but put it all together and it has a sort of realism too it that is pretty staggering. It's one graphical foible though is a lack of good AA, and I don't have the hardware to run SSAA, since my 1070 can barely run it maxed at 1080p and maintain 60 fps.

    I don't have much to say gameplay wise, only played the intro mountain level before going to bed, but it seems to be the closest I'll get to playing uncharted without buying a PlayStation.
     
  10. MuppetFace

    MuppetFace Sultana of Seafoam Green - Moderator

    Staff Member Pyrate
    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2015
    Likes Received:
    2,600
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    lake of mud
    Home Page:
    I know it's "gamer gospel" right now to hate Konami and champion Kojima as some kind of infallible game design god, but honestly the guy is not without fault.

    For one thing, MGSV's problems stem largely from his and his team's mismanagement of resources. I mean the guy was given an unprecedented budget. Yet instead of focusing on stuff like compelling level design and interesting mission objectives---certain things that ultimately make playing a game worthwhile---Kojima would rather focus his attention on making cinematics, schmoozing with Hollywood actors, coming up with self indulgent gags, and basically indulging in whatever esoteric thought experiments he's been obsessing about at the time.

    No doubt, he's a high caliber artist. But artists can be notoriously difficult to work with, and from what I've seen and heard over the years, Kojima seems to have trouble with handling budgets and maintaining focus on his projects. I'm looking forward to Death Stranding, if anything to see Kojima with even fewer people to "reign him in" (for better or worse). Once again Sony is giving him an obscene budget, so in ten years from now---or whenever it comes out---it could be truly brilliant.

    Or it could be an overproduced, intentionally opaque mess with lackluster gameplay.

    Either way it has quite a cast so far and looks quite pretty and simultaneously disturbing.
     
  11. TwoEars

    TwoEars Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2016
    Likes Received:
    2,006
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Don't worry, it's a tentacle game. The Japanese have some previous experience in this field.
     
  12. fraggler

    fraggler A Happy & Busy Life

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2015
    Likes Received:
    5,116
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Chicago, IL
    I agree that the ending of ME3 was a little disappointing, but I was actually prepared for that since I didn't do my first ME1-3 run through until just a couple years ago and had read all about it. What I wasn't prepared for was how much I connected with the crews and how sad I was once I finished the games. The Citadel DLC was amazing as a one last hurrah and goodbye to the crew and was the real ending for me. The conclusion of the Reaper saga was almost an afterthought (though I would have enjoyed the discarded ending you described much better). I have yet to come across a set of characters that I have liked more in a game. This is why I can't quite muster up that much enthusiasm for the next ME game - no matter how well done it is, I don't think I will connect with it as an ME game without Shepard et al on board.
     
  13. MuppetFace

    MuppetFace Sultana of Seafoam Green - Moderator

    Staff Member Pyrate
    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2015
    Likes Received:
    2,600
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    lake of mud
    Home Page:
    Yes, Kojima was very specific about "rods and ropes."

    Death Stranding has some rods in it, but the emphasis will be on ropes.

    Roooooooopes.
     
  14. %20 Oddity

    %20 Oddity Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2016
    Likes Received:
    494
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    Poland
    As long as I can see Mads Mikkelsen ineffectually fighting those off, I'm preordering Death Stranding the moment I can.
     
  15. Colgin

    Colgin Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2015
    Likes Received:
    634
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Last Guardian finally released on PS4. Cannot believe it is actually live. Need to get to Best Buy or Gamestop tonight.
     
  16. zerodeefex

    zerodeefex SBAF's Imelda Marcos

    Staff Member Pyrate BWC
    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2015
    Likes Received:
    14,092
    Trophy Points:
    113
    My $33 copy from Best buy B2G1 + GCU discount comes today. I can't wait to play.
     
  17. Colgin

    Colgin Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2015
    Likes Received:
    634
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Any recommendations for another PS4 game to take advantage of this deal. Preferably something my 7-ear old can also play. My PS4 Slim came bundled with Uncharted 4 which we were enjoying together until my wife went ballistic when she saw it. In fairness, the beginning does not really have violence but she came by just as the shooting started which was more than I had expected and really not age appropriate. Sadly I don't have time to play myself as I really only use the PS4 for games we play together (think FIFA and Lego Dimensions). But I think he will like Last Guardian.
     
  18. zerodeefex

    zerodeefex SBAF's Imelda Marcos

    Staff Member Pyrate BWC
    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2015
    Likes Received:
    14,092
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Commonsensemedia.org is your friend. I would NOT play the last guardian with a 7 year old. It gets pretty intense.

    My daughter (6.5) is only allowed to play mario kart 8, mario maker, and Yoshi's Wooly world, all with me. She doesn't even know the PS4 does anything other than play Blu rays.
     
  19. Colgin

    Colgin Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2015
    Likes Received:
    634
    Trophy Points:
    93
    OK. Thanks for the headsup. My son is a sports fanatic so lots of FIFA and EA NHL. Maybe I will pick up the EA NBA game to round things out. He also loves Lego games and I can recommend any of those if your kids are interested in Lego. I think Dimensions is particularly good because the franchises are geared towards adults (kids don't know most of the stuff with some exceptions, but also don't seem to care about not having that frame of reference).
     
  20. TwoEars

    TwoEars Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2016
    Likes Received:
    2,006
    Trophy Points:
    113

Share This Page