Bifrost 4490

Cool. Let me know if you need me to ship you something from the U.S. like a Wyrd to get this resolved.

 

Thanks!

Good news, my powered USB Hub arrived today and the Bifrost works just fine on the Lenovo (using the Hub)
Thanks everyone for the support!

 

Finally ABed the 4490 with the Bifrost Multibit. Definitely colored and more bleed from the bass into the lower mids than the Bifrost Multibit. The Bifrost Multibit is thicker and more resolving but has too little impact; this is way too warm with too much impact in the bass. I actually preferred the Modi 2U to the 4490 despite the treble steel.

 

Thanks for this quick comparison. Would you mind expanding on the differences between Modi 2U and the 4490?

 

What inputs are you using?

You have described what my 4490 sounds like via USB out of my Windows 10 PC.

It's much tighter using TOSLINK from my MacBook Pro and PS4. No bass bleed and doesn't present as over warmed or emphasised.
I haven't tried USB with the Mac yet so no idea if the difference is a Windows thing or a USB thing.

 

The Bifrost 4490's staging is much wider but it's overly bassy and bleeds into the lower mids like I said. The Modi 2U's stage is about as deep/tall but much less wide; it's clinical, leaner, and quicker but has a bit of treble steel/glare that the Bifrost lacks. The Modi 2U is more detailed due to the 4490's bassy obscurations.

Bifrost Multibit > Modi 2U > Bifrost 4490 in detail despite the better numbers of the 4490 and worse treble/parts of the Modi 2U. It still sounds better. The 4490 has the biggest stage by far but it's not nearly as precise as the pleasantly warm Bifrost Multibit. The 4490's stage is almost too big.

I don't see how it could be colored moreso over ASIO unless the USB receiver somehow warms up the 4490's output stage so much more than it does the Bifrost Multibit's or Modi's as they all share the same one.

 

No idea what's going on. My set up is Foobar2000 using WASAPI in event mode, with the dithering option turned off.

All I can say is that it sounds different between inputs with the devices that I own.
The PS4 and the Mac are quite alike. The PS4 can sound slightly better out of the two. Both sound different to the Windows PC. Only the Windows PC is using USB.

Maybe I'm talking shit. Maybe @schiit can chime in with some words of wisdom. Maybe some salt is in order

 

@Psalmanazar So do you consider the Bifrost Multibit a worthwhile upgrade from the Modi2U and in what aspects?

 

The Bifrost Multibit is more detailed with better instrument separation, staging, and a smoother treble. However it is warmer and thicker. It would be an upgrade but also a bit of a side grade/step back in tonality (except for the treble). Worth 450 dollars more? You be the judge. Both could compliment each other or you could just save for the Yggdrasil and get the best of both worlds.

 

@Hands glad you posted that!

Would you consider something like a Mutec worthwhile for a DS DAC? Like a 4490 maybe?

 

I have both Modi2U and Bifrost4490.

Please take the following subjective impressions with a grain of salt.
When I got my Bifrost4490, my Lenovo laptop didn't recognize it at all (USB). Then my first listen was with one of my brother's (superior) Asus laptop in which the Bifrost4490 (USB) worked just fine at first try. First impressions (vs M2U) were the Bifrost4490 provided bigger stage, smoother upper-mids and treble, but what first caught my attention was its higher resolution/control in the bass and sub-bass region. Overall a slightly more laid back presentation than M2U, but still very detailed and even more precise.

A few days later I gave the Asus back to my brother and got a relatively cheap powered USB HUB to use the Bifrost4490 with my Lenovo. Using the USB HUB the Lenovo recognizes the Bifrost just fine. The thing is I'm yet to hear that same extra clarity in the bass when using the Bifrost4490 on the Lenovo (USB HUB in between). More so, I can partially agree with @Psalmanazar since I'm getting the 'bass bleeding into the midrange' feeling.

So, I guess I'll have to borrow my brother's Asus again for further comparisons.

A few possibilities here:
- Placebo
- The relatively cheap powered USB HUB (and it's included cable) is making the Bifrost work on the Lenovo but also messing the sound a bit.
- USB ports on the Lenovo are not as clean as the USB ports on the Asus.

 

@Klasse I have a higher end Thinkpad (T440S) from which the Bifrost 4490 worked fine with the Pysst USB cable. Since the powered USB hub is surely cleaner than almost any motherboard's USB bus, maybe the 4490 just sounds like that. A friend told me the Bifrost Uber analog stage was warmer than the original Bifrost so maybe the 4490 shares that, coloring the sound much more than the Bifrost Multibit's castrated bass. I read Bifrost Multibit has an op-amp based output stage as the discrete Uber one couldn't fit.

 

Not surprised about the hub and it's potential effect on the sound. I have never heard a hub actually "improve" the sound. Different, yes, worse, yes, better, never.

I can also believe that some USB implementations in some computers may not be that great. Have you tried alternate usb ports on the Lenovo?

USB cords absolutely make a difference. Not inferring you need an expensive one, just that they do affect sound. I've used $3 cables that sound better than $20 cables.

And yes, it depends on what else is on the usb bus. Some computers use the mouse or trackpad on the same bus and it can make a difference. Use windows device manager on both to figure out what else is on it.

And in the end, if you want to use a computer for music, it should really be only for music, no other stuff going on while listening, or live with the consequences.

 

"...or live with the consequences."

Love it

 

Such melodrama.

 

Well, tried the Bifrost4490 with the Asus N56 again and compared with the Lenovo G50 + Powered USB HUB.

No perfect volume matching, no 10 hours comparison...
The Asus sounded better, sad to say this because the Asus is not mine, but the sound was tighter, clearer, Modi2U precision and timing back in place but bigger sound, and significantly improved transient in the upper midrange.

I guess I need a new Laptop...

 

Thanks for the update, that's pretty interesting. Could you borrow a Wyrd or a Regen from someone, to see if that can help out the Lenovo? Might be a cheaper route than a new machine?

 

You ruled out any weird EQ/driver settings on the Lenovo right? Long shot and probably not something you'd overlook but still...