Life after Yggdrasil: Watering the Ash

Discussion in 'Digital: DACs, USB converters, decrapifiers' started by Torq, Mar 1, 2017.

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  1. Truth above all

    Truth above all Rando

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    well 1/2 is not a 1/10.
    And my compression wasn’t between half the price, nor The OP in this case.
    I have tried MQA.
    In some cases price is more than just a number.
    I’m also surprised by this forum,
    And In a good way.
    Happy weekend.
     
  2. rlow

    rlow A happy woofer

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    This has peaked my curiosity. Where does he mention is top DACs now?
     
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  3. crenca

    crenca Friend

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    1/10, 1/100, pick a number, but in most cases it's just a number. Also, that Linn system is an integrated (amp/Dac/streaming - all in a lock box proprietary network if memory serves - could be wrong). After you get past a certain BOM, it's all in the implementation, preferences, marketing, and all the other factors in a luxury market where Old Audio Farts are sold things. Schiit and a few others swim upstream in that they explicitly design/sell value, which you're not supposed to do in a luxury market, until you become part of the landscape which Schiit has managed to a certain extent...
     
  4. earnmyturns

    earnmyturns Smartest friend

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  5. rlow

    rlow A happy woofer

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    Found it:
    1. Chord DAVE (via Blu Mk2 or Hugo M-Scaler)
    2. MSB Select DAC (with Femto 33 clock and 2x Mono Powerbases)
    3. dCS Vivaldi (w/ Upsampler and Master Clock)
    4. Linn Klimax DSM/3 (Katalyst)
    5. Hugo TT 2 (via Hugo M-Scaler)
    6. dCS Bartok
    7. Schiit Yggdrasil A2 (w/ Unison USB)
    8. Mola Mola Tambaqui
    9. Matrix X-Sabre Pro MQA
    10. Schiit Bifrost 2
    There is no consideration of value in this listing.​

    https://forum.headphones.com/t/im-sailing-away/5367/59

     
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  6. Aklegal

    Aklegal Almost "Made"

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    I looked the Mola Mola up out of curiosity and mainly because I already know that DACs 1 through 6 are prohibitively expensive for me. Of course the Tambaqui is $16,000 - why wouldn't it be lol.

    Every time I try stepping out on my Yggdrasil price tags bitch slap me.
     
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    Last edited: Apr 17, 2020
  7. yotacowboy

    yotacowboy McRibs Kind of Guy

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    $10k dac for $2.5k kinda does that.
     
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  8. purr1n

    purr1n Super Friend

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    Rockna Wavedream XLR non-uber version beats all of them.
     
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  9. songmic

    songmic Gear cycler East Asia edition

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    When it comes to SE outputs only, is there any DAC that beats Bifrost 2?
     
  10. GoodEnoughGear

    GoodEnoughGear Evil Dr. Shultz‎

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    DAC1541
     
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  11. exocer

    exocer Acquaintance

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    Probably a silly question but would one think this list would differ for 2-channel speakers vs headphones?
     
  12. Psalmanazar

    Psalmanazar Most improved member; A+

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    1. Torq copied other people’s impressions. Who cares what he thought. Half that crap does not sound nearly as cool as an almost 20 year old Lavry piece. There’s very good stuff now that starts at a couple hundred bucks (cut down SSL Alphalink and MOTU AVB conversion, the Grace sdac, used market is a buyers market now with tons of great deals) that just didn’t exist just a few years ago. Schiit is 100 bucks and doesn’t suck. Once you get past “doesn’t suck” your speakers, amplification, and room matter more than the conversion. Good power amps are much harder to find than good conversion in 2020. It’s the opposite of the 90s.
     
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    Last edited: Apr 19, 2020
  13. neomax

    neomax RobS / hinterlander

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    personally i never got anything out of a torq review.

    i read his modi 3 review and came away learning absolutely nothing about the product.
     
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  14. scottcw

    scottcw Rando

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    Revisionist history is strong tonight.
     
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  15. Psalmanazar

    Psalmanazar Most improved member; A+

    Slaytanic Cliff Clavin
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    Torq was a deaf blowhard who recycled popular opinion. He would even review old meme gear from years ago and recycle other’s impressions from years ago. Good at selling stuff 6moons style? Yes. Informative impressions of new gear? Hell to the no.
     
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  16. Xecuter

    Xecuter Brush and floss your amp twice a day

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    @exocer correct, most of torq early impressions were with Woo-goo and stuff like Abyss. Which had it's merits but his speaker rig was mid tier at best, hence he rated Dacs like Dave highly, which are not really top shelf with speakers.
    Not sure what he has been running lately.

    I want to revise torq's list.
    1. Chord DAVE (via Blu Mk2 or Hugo M-Scaler) - heard this, mid tier at best - off the list
    2. MSB Select DAC (with Femto 33 clock and 2x Mono Powerbases) - heard this - unfortunately its amazing
    3. dCS Vivaldi (w/ Upsampler and Master Clock) - heard this: euphoric, holographic weird.
    4. Linn Klimax DSM/3 (Katalyst) - never heard
    5. Hugo TT 2 (via Hugo M-Scaler) - hot trash
    6. dCS Bartok - not heard
    7. Schiit Yggdrasil A2 (w/ Unison USB) - loses magic resolution of v1
    8. Mola Mola - heard this same as La-scala ii - mid-fi
    9. Matrix X-Sabre MQA - great value but not top tier
    10. Schiit Bifrost 2
    Xec revised list - I've heard 90% of these in home systems or my own.

    Clearly a step above everything else

    1. MSB Select DAC II (with Femto 33 clock and 2x Mono Powerbases) - as close to perfect as I've heard
    2. Rockna Wavedream signature balanced XLR - incredibly well rounded, nuanced, attack could be slightly harder
    3. Bricasti m1 SE - convert 2 with more resolution and air, better noise floor etc



    better than midfi (marginal)
    4.Convert 2 - some disagree but in the right system this is down right nutty but not well rounded
    5. Holo May NOS with HQ player or something to upsample - still not engaging
    6. dCS Vivaldi (w/ Upsampler and Master Clock) - way overpriced and kinda coloured but tastefully - not for me
    7. Boulder 2120 - solid DAC, overpriced, their amps are really good
    8. Esoteric D1 - good dac, overpriced, the cd-t these guys makes is in my opinion the best source you can get
    9. yggy1 - warmed up this was special but had well documented weaknesses
    10. Termi with new board
    11. Holo May NOS without HQ player
    12. Matrix X-Sabre MQA - big value and features - lacks body and slam
    13. Bi-frost 2 - great tone and timbre - Because we need a good sub 1k dac.

    Yggdrasil v2 - slightly above mid-fi - but lacks v1 special sauce resolution


    mid-fi at best
    dCS Bartok, not engaging, decent with some headphones,
    mola mola: I've had good and bad experiences with this and have my suspicions as to why, but I will try to do an in house demo to confirm SOON.
    Pavane - good NOS Dac but not a big step up
    Dave with Blu2 and M-Scaler - no stage, flat, lacks depths, transients dull and boring - great with headphones
    ps-audio DS - soft, weak sauce - tried the last two firmware, this is really mediocre
    la scala ii - nothing special here
    Termi with old board - apparently new board makes a big difference, when Isolation is over I will compare
    Luxman, mytek, lampi, ifi, border patrol, all in here somewhere.


    I would like to hear the Total Dac, Aries Kassandra, Nagra, lavry, Prism, Ayre Dacs as they are candidates for above midi-fi or better.

    OFC, IMO, YMMV depending on system- I value transient speed and edge, dynamics and resolution above staging.
    For some home audition - I dragged my tube amp, transport and DAC to a lot of these auditions to hear their DAC with an amp and headphones I knew, then used their speakers to compare my convert 2/rockna to their DAC. Not as good as doing it in my system, but the next best thing.
     
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    Last edited: Nov 10, 2021
  17. Ntbm3

    Ntbm3 Friend

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    How does your old sonic frontier SFD1-MK II stack up on your list?

    thanks for sharing the impressions above!
     
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  18. GoodEnoughGear

    GoodEnoughGear Evil Dr. Shultz‎

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    LOL I guess it's an ORFAS world out there.
     
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  19. Xecuter

    Xecuter Brush and floss your amp twice a day

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    I would say better than mid-fi - I didn't want to add it to the list because it is no longer in production. I would put it below Yggdrasil 1 and above the Matrix.
     
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  20. Koth Ganesh

    Koth Ganesh Friend

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    Xec, the Bricasti is $10k new. The Convert-2 is over a fifth of that price. What's your opinion on the value proposition here? Thanks
     
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