Discussion in 'Speakers' started by Cakecake, Apr 23, 2018.
any thoughts on the new radian hybrid models?
I just read about this new woofer from SB Audience
I see it listed on Madisound (though not available yet) for $98 and $150.
I’d be curious if the SB 15 would be suitable as a bottom woofer replacement without a xover mod. I think the PAP 15 might extend higher even though it’s not as smooth, (I’m going from memory) so the SB might not work as a mid with the Heil tweeter, this config is a 2.5 way, but maybe for bass is good. I’ll let the measurement and xover experts theorize on this one.
slightly off topic but related to SB. I have 6.5" SB drivers in my little monitors and they are very good. Solid construction and produce reactive/fast & clean bass ( although don't get much output below 80hz )
SB are up there with Scanspeak and SEAS with high quality drivers. Their more affordable lines will give Dayton a run for its money. And I've heard builders rate their ceramic drivers above Accuton sound-wise.
I have four of their SB34NRX75-6 woofers and they kick ass.
Not a drop in replacement, however it might be that the mid and high xo can be left alone. I bet the 15OB350 will be capable of higher quality bass (more riggid cone, lower Qts, lower Fs, much stronger motor).
Certainly. The SB stuff is used in high end speakers worldwide. Their value proposition is unmatched through most of their transducers range, or at least these are not overpriced.
Hi, new member. Stumbled on this when looking for an OB speaker to DIY. In the initial posts I saw someone say they plan to post CAD files once their designs were complete. Were the posted? If not, can someone post or PM me the files please?
May start with a TB 1808. Eminence 15 seems to be the choice for woofers. Alpha with high Q seems preferable but that was a while back. Am open to suggestions.
Thanks and have a good year ahead!
I've changed the setup a bunch but probably have some STL somewhere on my initial thoughts. Let me see if I can track it down.
Also, the recommendation is currently the eminence beta 15. It's significantly better than the Alpha in this application as folks like @sphinxvc will tell you despite the spec sheet.
I'm a newbie to this forum and to speaker building and perhaps my questions have already been answered here but I've gone thru the 18 pages and didn't see what I am curious about. I have acquired a set of PAP Trio 15 Horn1's with the associated drivers and crossovers as well a set of 4 PAP 15" Woofers. I need to build frames and baffles for the woofers. My questions are:
1) Lots of comments about the benefits of the WMW configuration but also complaints about a low sound stage which has led some people to put the Trio15 on boxes or lumber. But I haven't seen anything about simply building a taller frame so that all the drivers are 10-12" higher off the ground. Any reason why this wouldn't work well?
2) Over on Lii Audio they have an open baffle design with wings coming 90 degrees off the woofer baffle on both sides. Is there any reason why this would be a good modification for the PAP design?
3) At some point I may want to substitute a Lii Silver 10 driver for the Horns. Does anybody know how I would go about getting specs for a crossover for that design or buying one ready made?
4) What is the best wire to use to connect the drivers to the crossover?
1) Lifting the bottom woofer from the floor didn't work well with the Leonidas crossover, sound became much thinner and flatter
2) Adding wings would probably increase the bass response, I don't see a need to do that but your taste may vary
3) No idea, some people here have modeling experience for plotting those things but not me.
4) The standard wires provided are flexible 12 gauge copper wound IIRC, PAP sells copper foils as an upgrade
If you're a noobie, I'd stick to what's written on the paper. Once you have a good grip on the mechanics behind the speaker, then start tweaking and measuring.
1 - You could build it taller, or change baffle dimensions in general, but you would just need to measure the effects of that and adjust for it. The dimensions/config of the baffle change the response. Since you already have a PAP x-over, that ship has probably sailed. Maybe just angle the speakers back or make it TWW.
2 - That's a U-frame, and again a change to baffle dimensions/config. It provides greater sensitivity in front, while compromising the response in the back. You can add damping in the back to flatten the response if dipolar response is the goal. Check out John Kreskovsky content on U vs. H frames, and also Martin J. King's, they've both done inquiries and comparisons of flat vs. U vs. H-frames. But stepping back, that ship may have sailed unless you're willing to measure and design an x-over.
3 - No idea, but again I'll provide a reference, there's a very comprehensive passive crossover design explainer on Rod Elliot's site. Requires measuring.
4 - "Best wire", maybe just look around on the internet. There's no dearth of opinions or life changing stories. Like @ogodei said, PAP recommends their partner's very expensive fettucini-looking cables. I just use regular speaker wire, it's not even from BlueJeans or a utility/quality-focused wire provider.
A gentle reminder for the CAD drawings...
If someone can share a plan drawing for a PAP style WFW that will work too.
BTW, what are the differences between a FWW and a WFW design?
Thanks for the help. I hadn't thought about the fact that raising the speakers or building a U frame might change the crossover requirements. Perhaps I'll just build the speaker normally and fiddle with it later.
I am new here. I want to build Pap trio15 Tb. I want to do it with Eminence Beta 15A. What should I do for crossover?
First time post.
It seems like a popular request, but after of weeks of searching online this seem like a best option - there comes another Leonidas crossover question.
I want to build PAP trios with Eminence alphas 15A and Lii Audio's fast-8 and I can't figure out how to obtain the right component values for XO without complicated measurements.
Can someone help and calculate/simulate the values?
Or I can just simply use values from here ?
Thanks in advance!
I tore down my Trio 15s a couple of months ago to refinish the light blonde bamboo panels after doing a lot of research on how to stain bamboo. (It's tricky) While I had everything apart I decided to add some bypass caps and some new wiring.
The bypass caps were some Miflex that I bought on sale for cheap last Winter that I had intended on using for another project. I'm not normally a subscriber to the bypass cap philosophy but I wanted to try them anyway and the mod is easilly reversible. I used two .1uF caps, one on the tweeter and one on the midrange sections of the crossover.
The wiring I had used previously was some Audioquest Type 2 on the mid and bass. The Heil tweeter is hardwired with some thin -probably 20ga wire from the factory and I had originally extended them with some Kimber wire. I left the tweeter wire unchanged but swapped out the mid and bass wire with some Morrow SP2 that was sold as an internal wiring kit. I've used Morrow SP2 as my main speaker wire for a few months and been pretty impressed with it so decided to continue with it as much as possible directly to the drivers.
The staining job came out pretty good but a little inconsistent from panel to panel which is pretty typical with bamboo. I still like how it looks a little rustic and is a better match with the rest of the darker surfaces in the room.
I read in another thread that the Miflex caps take forever to break in. Morrow even claims that their wire takes a while to break in as well. But I've probably got 100 hours on these since reassembly and I really like whats going on. The biggest change was that the vocals are a lot more distinct and pop out of the mix a little more and the imaging is more solid horizontally. I don't know if it was the wires or the caps, but I like the results and am curious to see if things change any more over the coming months.
Does anyone know where you can buy or get the dimensions for the Trio crossovers? I am building a similar speaker like the crossovers abi,ity to easily swap parts without soldering. I contacted Pure Audio USA, and they said I must buy the woofers from them to be able to buy crossover parts.
The crossover is neither good, nor is it useful if you don't exactly follow the same design.
Just make your own crossover.
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