Saga 2 Ideas from Freya S?

Discussion in 'Preamps' started by Merrick, Aug 10, 2020.

  1. Merrick

    Merrick A lidless ear

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    This is why I hope the Freya S sticks around and doesn’t disappear like the Saga S. It’s filling a very valuable spot in the marketplace, even if not everyone realizes it yet.
     
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  2. schiit

    schiit SchiitHead

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    I'm afraid we are very near the end of Freya S. Probably a couple of weeks at most. So if you want one, now's the time.

    But--that brings up an interesting question. Sales of Saga+ are lukewarm. Preamps seem to sell best if they have balanced I/O. So would a Saga 2 that is a Freya S with less inputs make sense? As in, a smaller Nexus preamp? Consider that we're talking only one balanced input due to space limitations. Probably a total of 3-4 inputs. Probably $399 like Saga 2.

    Usual disclaimer: this is not a product, this is just me asking your opinion. Nothing is designed. This may never happen. I'm just honestly curious about how best to proceed with a lower-cost preamp when we have the red-hot Freya+ just killing everything else.

    Mods, please cleave this digression if you think it goes too far afield.
     
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  3. mkozlows

    mkozlows Friend

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    I genuinely don't understand where more analog inputs even come from, these days. Your DAC is going to be one input, and if you have multiple digital sources, they're all stacked up behind the DAC somehow; then maybe you have a turntable; and if you're doing HT passthrough out of a receiver's pre-outs, okay, there's another one. What else has anyone got?
     
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  4. monacelli

    monacelli Friend

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    I agree with @Merrick here. I've had my Freya S for about a month now and I love it. The Nexus X4 mode was a real eye opener for me coming from passive preamps/attenuators. I love tubes too, but I don't necessarily want to have to deal with a quad of 6SN7s in my preamp. So yes, if Freya S is nearing the end of its life, I would love to see the Nexus topology live on in a smaller form factor preamp. Honestly, I think one balanced input is plenty. I would guess that the number of people who have 2 balanced DACs in the same rig is probably smaller than the number of people who have one balanced DAC and say a turntable (or a single-ended DAC). If such a product had existed, the heart of the Freya S design in a smaller form factor for $399, I would probably have chosen it instead of Freya S to save rack space and $. If you could squeeze one balanced output and two unbalanced outputs into a design like that, it would cover my use cases. In my opinion, Freya S sounds too good not to fit its circuitry into the Schiit line-up one way or another. PS - Thanks for everything, I have a lot of respect for the operation you guys run~
     
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  5. Biodegraded

    Biodegraded Friend

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    Phono preamp, FM tuner. Some have CD players that they like to run without going through, or as an alternative to, their standalone DAC.

    If the question is how much to try to fit into a Saga-size chassis while including at least 1 bal in & out, I'd like to see: at least 2 outputs (1 bal, 1 SE) for 2 ch. power amp & possible subwoofer - maybe 1 more SE (variable or not) for a headphone amp - and 1 bal & at least 2, ideally 3, SE inputs. But at that point you should probably tell me to STFU and get a Freya ;)
     
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  6. dmckean44

    dmckean44 In a Sherwood S6040CP relationship

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    I keep a 3.5mm cable plugged into an empty input so friends can hook up their phones and play their music when they swing though. I'm having a hard time thinking of anything else I would need another input for.

    I think it depends somewhat on age though, when I buy equipment from guys on offerup or craigslist I still see FM tuners, cassette decks and stand alone CD players frequently.
     
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  7. rlow

    rlow A happy woofer

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    A balanced preamp in the Saga size would be a good idea to support your balanced DACs in that width (Bifrost, Modius). Most folks don’t need more than 1 balanced input and 2 SE ins should be plenty, along with 1 each for the output. And to include a Nexus mode, would be major icing on the cake I think.
     
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  8. Gazny

    Gazny Friend

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    I don't use many inputs my saga, but losing 2 to gain balanced nexus does seem to be something I would love to upgrade to. At the moment I can imagine upgrading to a any of the balanced dacs with the inclusion of the balanced input.
    • My only request is to be able to cycle both forward and backwards. While I think it will require another button on the remote It would be one feature I would love to have.
    • I had the idea of more steps, but being balanced those would already be doubled. Maybe a OLED to display the steps. I know something is in the works for the transport and maybe we can get something nice to see across the room.
    • A front mute if the space permits. I love having it on my desktop, and would love a quick button to press, instead of reaching for the remote.
     
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    Last edited: Aug 15, 2020
  9. rlow

    rlow A happy woofer

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    If you go down to 3 inputs, do you really need the back/forth input selection?
     
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  10. Friday

    Friday Friend

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    As a Saga OG owner, I think it may have been more the case that the Saga+ just isn't a compelling enough upgrade to justify spending another $400 to replace a fully functional, and good-sounding OG.

    Saga 2 as a mini-Freya as described by monacelli sounds more compelling, or at least more different that I might be interested if I had the funds, especially since I don't use the tube stage in Saga OG any more in my current set-up. However, the tough part may be convincing the market outside of SBAF that Nexus is an "upgrade" over tubes.
     
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  11. Gazny

    Gazny Friend

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    You are right it @rlow might not be necessary. I am only thinking of my personal experience with the current 5 inputs.
     
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  12. HotRatSalad

    HotRatSalad Friend

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    Exactly this, have an OG saga but want nexus. Mini Freya S/saga2 would probably fill a nice gap for a lot of folks.
     
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  13. Friday

    Friday Friend

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    Some additional thoughts: one of the main strengths of the Saga line is its transparency, at least in passive stage. So the Saga 2 would still have to be at least as transparent as the Saga+ (or even more transparent for a True Upgrade, but no idea how you can achieve that).
     
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  14. Merrick

    Merrick A lidless ear

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    This is exactly the kind of product I'm looking for. One balanced in, one balanced out, a couple of SE I/Os. Most people likely have more SE components than balanced, but may have a need for the few balanced pieces they do have. For example, I have the Gungnir Multibit and a Liquid Platinum. Everything else is SE. I use the balanced outs on the Gungnir for the Platinum, and the SE runs to my OG Saga. This is fine but I'd much rather run the balanced out only from the Gungnir so I can get the benefit of a pre running to my headphone amp as well as the Nexus capability for the balanced to SE connections. I also have a turntable and the analog outs from my SACD player, so I still need a good SE pre. I could get a Freya S, but it's a bit surplus to my needs, as I only have the one balanced source and one balanced amp. Additionally, it would take up a lot more space on my rack, whereas a Nexus Saga with a single balanced connection could simply replace my current Saga and retain the shelf setup I already have.

    I would be fine with this being either a single tube or SS quite honestly. It seems like the tube pres are better sellers for you and such a device would be a great 1:1 replacement for the Saga so I could see that being the way to go.

    If you released a Nexus Saga with a single BAL I/O and a couple of SE I/O at $399, I'd buy one or possibly even two as that would also add a lot of versatility to my office setup as well.
     
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  15. DigitalMaven

    DigitalMaven Acquaintance

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    "So would a Saga 2 that is a Freya S with less inputs make sense? As in, a smaller Nexus preamp? Consider that we're talking only one balanced input due to space limitations. Probably a total of 3-4 inputs. Probably $399 like Saga 2."

    Yes, this makes sense and fills a need in your line-up at half the price. Keep the gain as well. I don't think there's much of a market for a $399 remote control add-on!
     
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  16. DigitalMaven

    DigitalMaven Acquaintance

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    Better parts???
     
  17. Brian D

    Brian D Facebook Friend

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    At some point back on Head-fi here was a suggestion for a balanced passive pre, but it made no sense for Schiit to pursue. If there is a Saga/balanced/Nexus preamp, it blows away the idea of a passive. I'd be very interested,
     
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  18. Senorx12562

    Senorx12562 Case of the mondays

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    I was trying to save money for a Freya S when the shit hit the fan, and still am but at a reduced rate, but it now appears that there will be no more before I get there. Obviously given this, price is a huge deal for me. The product you hypothesize would work as well. My particular use case would require at least 1 balanced in and out, and I suppose as many additional unbalanced i/o as could fit (at least one).

    I originally wanted some gain as I was hoping to get an Aegir and could have used all the gain I could get, but since the same factors that led to me not being able to afford a Freya S yet have now made it impossible to afford a new speaker amp any time soon, now only unbalanced outs would even be ok, but hope springs eternal, so I would want 1 balanced out pair for the future possibility of monos or a stereo amp with balanced inputs, and for now to the balanced in on my Jot. I just don't want to have to utilize a transformer to use the balanced outs on my Gungnir. I love my Saga, and it's a good thing since it now appears I will have it awhile. I doubt that I will ever want or need more than 1set of balanced i/o.

    So yes, a smaller Freya with only one balanced i/o plus maybe a couple unbalanced i/o at around the Saga+ price point would definitely interest me, as long as I can do balanced in/se out. I prefer to avoid tubes though. Bought my Saga despite them, not because of them. If my luck holds I won't have any money by the time that happened if it did anyway, (fwiw:cool:) but it's not like the Gungnir sounds bad from the SE outs, at least it doesn't to me, some disagree apparently.
     
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    Last edited: Aug 10, 2020
  19. Merrick

    Merrick A lidless ear

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    I also would prefer SS for my pre, given reports of how good the Freya S sounds. But if it's a choice between no pre like the one Jason has proposed here, and a single tube version of that pre, I'll take the single tube every time.
     
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  20. Senorx12562

    Senorx12562 Case of the mondays

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    Agreed. I don't doubt that I am in the minority on my preference for ss, and it didn't stop me from buying and (enjoying) the Saga. Don't know about 4 tho.
     
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