Schiit Aegir Power Amp Impressions

Discussion in 'Power Amps' started by rlow, Oct 16, 2018.

  1. Vtory

    Vtory Illogical Spock

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    SBAF usually hates contextless "better". Moreover, dual and single Aegirs take different kinds of inputs, which could be a serious confounder when source equivalence violated. As a rule of thumb, if you don't think everyone else easily translates your subjective assessments, avoid to use "absolutely", too.

    All things considered, it doesn't look like a nice way to start sbaf forum life. Post less and read more.
     
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  2. Vtory

    Vtory Illogical Spock

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    Do you have any specific recommendations in mind? I might understand 25-30% what you're talking about, but my experience may fail to find sufficiently similar end results. Tried Vidar (single/dual), Bryston, Pass, Emotiva, etc. While they do certain things similarly, but none of them was enough for me to consider seriously over Aegirs.
     
  3. Jimmydong

    Jimmydong Rando

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    You should head over to Audio Science then . You let me know when you find a person who says one Aegir sounds better than two snowflake.
     
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  4. Lyander

    Lyander Too sensitive for SBAF

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    You mean a forum where contextless and carelessly-performed measurements supersede other valid data in the form of trained listening impressions and where there appears to be undue favoritism towards Topping DACs despite legitimate criticisms against them, not the least of which being they've stopped being a sensibly-priced brand and now sell verifiably mediocre products for no-longer-insignificant prices?

    Also, speaking from experience, people who tend to fling the word "snowflake" around tend to not be worth engaging as the word often better reflects their own sensibilities than those of the person they are casting aspersions upon. The only reason I bothered making this post, which is out of character for how I'm trying to be less reactive nowadays, is that you're being an irremediable bigot whose goal in the quoted bit appears to be more raising heckles than engaging in generative conversation.
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2020
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  5. Regular Petey

    Regular Petey Facebook Friend

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    I had a single Vidar powering my Salk HT2-TL speakers (88dB, 4 ohm nominal, 6 ohm average). The Vidar certainly had more than enough power for my speakers and listening habits. A single Aegir would not have enough power, by most accounts, so I ordered two Aegir amps. For the sake of SBAF, I should have tried switching between single Vidar and 2 x Aegir, but my understanding was that I couldn't return a pair of Aegirs on the 15 day trial period, not to mention that the shipping and restocking fees would have been $200+, so I had pretty much committed to 2 x Aegir from the start.

    As far as my speakers are concerned, I think that 2 x Aegir is almost the perfect solution. I won't be tripping the protection on the Aegirs, they don't get very hot, and the combination sounds amazing. I would guess that you fall into the same middle ground, although your speakers appear to be even easier to drive.

    It seems like many people feel like class A/B is bad, when compared to class A, or the class A-like Aegir. Based on what Jason Stoddard has said, "eliminate transconductance droop outside of the Class A bias region", in regards to what happens in a class A/B amp, compared to what happens in Aegir, I am assuming that Aegir is better than Vidar, if and only if, your speakers fall within the boundaries of what Aegir or Aegir x 2 was designed for. Yours do, and mine do, but many people are just thinking that Aegir is better than Vidar, so they want to use Aegir. Some people realize that Aegir isn't powerful enough for their speakers, so they're clamoring for Schiit to build a more powerful Aegir, when a single Vidar may be all that they need, and may be better for their inefficient speakers than a pair of Aegirs.
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2020
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  6. EagleWings

    EagleWings Friend

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    Sonic differences between 1xAegir, 2xAegirs and 1xVidar are well documented here. Based on the impressions shared here, there are a few of us, who lean towards the 1xAegir, but can't do it because we want to drive not-so-efficient bookshelves. A more powerful Aegir like amp just might be the ticket. So we are staying hopeful, not clamoring Schiit.
     
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  7. msommers

    msommers High on Epipens

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  8. Regular Petey

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    I wasn't belittling the differences that may exist, nor was I implying that wanting a more powerful Aegir was unreasonable. To "clamor" doesn't mean that someone is doing it obnoxiously, but when after seeing numerous people asking for a more powerful Aegir, I would say it fits the second definition in my Webster's dictionary: "insistent public expression (as support or protest)." For people who haven't followed along through most or all of Jason Stoddard's 'Schiit Happened' thread on HeadFi, dealing with the heat dissipation was quite an issue, without adding a fan. Based on what Jason has said in the past, I doubt that he would want to add a fan to the power amps in the future, which would mean much bigger chassis and larger heatsinks. I don't have a problem with that, and I'm well aware that there are speakers that aren't ideally suited for pairing with one or two Aegir amps, as they exist today.
     
  9. Vtory

    Vtory Illogical Spock

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    @Regular Petey Have you ever experienced any situation in which Aegirs x2 fail but Vidar x1 succeed? I don't think these two options differ much in driving ability. As a previous owner of single Vidar, two aegirs drive anything no less than one vidar -- I'm intentionally ignoring extra (subjective/emotional) benefits aegirs bring to the table over V. There ARE some cases where two vidars excel though. That's a different story.

    I do agree that single Aegir has more agreeable tone and midrange sweetness, which are largely diluted with two aegirs (when tested with bal-unbal equivalent nexus freya) in return for technical gains. Maybe differential operations play some role. Maybe some other reasons. I digress. Two aegirs do work very well with my speakers, but I can see a market that needs these two worlds combined together. In fact, I am one of them.
     
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  10. Regular Petey

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    No. But I wasn't pushing the single Vidar anywhere near its limits, nor am I pushing the pair of Aegir amps near their limits. The top of my Freya OG is probably as hot as the hottest parts of the Aegirs, after listening for several hours, which is to say that they aren't very hot. As I said, I never did a 1 x Vidar vs. 2 x Aegir listening comparison. I ended up repositioning my speakers at the same time I swapped amps, so I didn't have an apples to apples comparison. All I know was that it sounded much better after the amp swap and the speaker repositioning.

    My speakers are fairly large floorstanding speakers, but I sit where my ears are roughly 6.5' from the speaker drivers. Would that be considered mid-field? The amps and speakers are capable of filling a much larger room with sound, without breaking a sweat. The face of the drivers are about 3' from the rear wall, then 6.5' to my head, then another 6.5' from my ears to the rear wall. I didn't measure it out so it would be that way, that's just how it is at the moment.

    I never tested out a single Aegir with my speakers. It probably would have been fine at the levels that I generally listen to music at, but the Aegirs were delivered the same day, and I had the XLR cables, so that how it's been ever since.
     
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  11. sphinxvc

    sphinxvc Gear Master (retired)

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    From the ones I’ve owned, the Odyssey behemoths come to mind, maybe the Vincent on loan here a few years ago. Earlier in the thread, PTS compared a ~150W A/B BAT favorably to dual Aegirs. The market has a lot of options when it comes to sub-$1.7K power amps with similar strengths and weaknesses: more control and body, less nuance and transparency. But that’s a direction I don’t associate with the gap Aegir tries and succeeds at attacking in the market: providing sub-$1K class A transparency.

    When you try to counter a single Aegir's deficiencies (rounded and malnourished bass), you have a bunch of trade-offs to see to: either use it with something so efficient the speaker can’t do bass anyway; or bi-amp and deal with the complexities that come with that; or bridge, and get a net gain or loss depending on your sonic priorities. It's similar to negative feedback to me, you give up some sweetness and clarity for a touch more control. If that's a gain, I was suggesting that you might succeed at shoring up on those weaknesses and retaining those strengths by exploring other class A/Bs. You might even save some money compared to the $1.6-7K Aegirs.

    I didn't really understand ASR's Aegir review. It read like this: This amp doesn't provide the power it claims to provide. The left unit and the right unit measure differently. Highly recommended for competent engineering! -- Huh?
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2020
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  12. Senorx12562

    Senorx12562 Case of the mondays

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    My next purchase (at some indeterminate time in the future) will be a speaker amp (my current one was only ever intended as a stopgap) and I go back and forth in my head between Aegir and Vidar. I know there are many other choices out there besides Schiit products, but I don't see much that is competitive from a sq/$ perspective. The problem is that my speakers, while nominally 90 dB sensitive, have been measured at about 87db, and I just don't see a single Aegir as being sufficient, even in my small 12×14 room at about 8 ft. away. Don't know for sure though not having tried. My current Emotiva A150 (75w @8 ohm) never really gets above about 70% volume. Going w/ monos is not going to be an option due to costs, so I may see if Schiit will waive the restocking fee if I try an Aegir and end up returning it for a Vidar.
     
  13. sphinxvc

    sphinxvc Gear Master (retired)

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    Also, just to clarify, I don’t mean to generalize about amplifier classes. It’s just we’re dealing with prices here where everything is a trade-off, each design prioritizes one thing or another, and it’s up to us to pick where we'll compromise.
     
  14. Vtory

    Vtory Illogical Spock

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    @Senorx12562 Sounds like Ragnarok 2 could also meet the power requirement. Doesn't it satisfy your budget?
     
  15. RobS

    RobS RobS? More like RobDiarrhea.

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    How loud do you listen? Use this calculator: http://myhometheater.homestead.com/splcalculator.html

    If you can make it work, I would take Aegir over Vidar any day of the week. Bass is killer with Vidar but everything else about it is mediocre when compared to better amps. Aegir still has some weaknesses - it can get congested in the mids when things get busy and the lack of depth coupled with an overall poor soundstage (which I just confirmed is the amp's problem). For the price I'd imagine it would be difficult finding a better amp. It's got really good cohesion from bass to treble and just the right amount of pleasing warmth. It's a tad too warm for my liking but it ain't a dealbreaker.

    If you are using a Gungnir Multibit A1...I dunno could be too warm of a pairing with Aegir. Might put you to sleep.



    This is reasonable: "The main issue here is lack of power. To someone like me, with very large spaces, rather inefficient speakers and desire for bass that you feel as much as you here, the Aegir is definitely not for me."

    But then right after says something facepalm worthy: "Nor do I buy into "Class A" having any benefit. If it had, it would show up in measurements. It does not."


    Um Aegir is better than Vidar in virtually every way. It's no contest.
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2020
  16. Regular Petey

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    I'm not trying to dispute this, but I just want to understand how this is possible. I've seen multiple people say this same kind of thing. Can someone give me a fairly scientific explanation, for how a single Aegir can sound sweeter driving just a single input leg of my speakers (in stereo) vs. driving both input legs of a speaker differentially (as monoblocks)? Driving a single speaker (as a monoblock) has half the resistance of driving two speakers in stereo. Did I get that right? Assuming that in either case there is more than enough power, based on the efficiency of the speakers, and that output volumes are equalized, what is the reasoning for how the sound could sound better from the single Aegir vs the monoblock Aegirs? If this was covered somewhere in a sound science thread somewhere, feel free to just attach a link to it. Thanks.

    -Pete
     
  17. RobS

    RobS RobS? More like RobDiarrhea.

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    There's no science required here. What you think the folks who have said that are liars?

    purr1n surmised earlier in this thread that it might have something to do with 2nd harmonic distortion being lower with monoblock which makes it more solid state sounding than some of the tube-like immediacy of it in stereo. I actually preferred a single Vidar over monoblock as it sounded less boring as well.
     
  18. Vtory

    Vtory Illogical Spock

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  19. Regular Petey

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    Um, no.

    What part of "I'm not trying to dispute this..." and "Can someone give me a fairly scientific explanation, for how a single Aegir can sound sweeter driving..." was incomprehensible? If there isn't a scientific or measurable reason for it, that's fine, but this seems to fall a bit outside of the black box magic that occurs within most DACs. From my perspective, it seems like there should be some rough explanation for why this should be.
     
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  20. Regular Petey

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