Schiit Bifrost 2

Discussion in 'Digital: DACs, USB converters, decrapifiers' started by RobS, Aug 28, 2019.

  1. schiit

    schiit SchiitHead

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    Yes, when it's available for Gungnir and Yggdrasil, most likely in January.
     
  2. Clemmaster

    Clemmaster Friend

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    I thought it was when they looked at building a cheap DAC around newer D/S DAC chips?
     
  3. Clemmaster

    Clemmaster Friend

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    Can you put me on the upgrade list for Gungnir? :p
     
  4. Hammy

    Hammy Friend

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    Can using both outputs simultaneously (balanced and RCA) impact the sound quality compared to using either of the outputs on their own?

    I have an OG Gungnir Multibit. I've noticed that if I use both pairs of RCA outputs and have both headphone amps on at the same time I can lose a little bit of sound quality from the DAC. If I turn off one of the amps I get that sound quality back.

    I'm curious if the Bifrost 2 may lose some sound quality if driving both a balanced and single-ended amps at the same time?
     
  5. Taverius

    Taverius Smells like sausages

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    Welp time to keep an eye on the EU distributor.

    I know someone who'll love my late-og one as a present once unison is in it.
     
  6. Vtory

    Vtory Audiophile™

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    Looking at Schiit's measurements of Bifrost 2, here are some interesting (to me) observations.

    upload_2019-8-28_20-11-35.png

    Above is 1k FFT spectrum (XLR out).

    1. Noise floor level is extremely low (approximately -150 dbFS!). I remember its two higher mbit brothers having higher noise floors (all below hearing threshold though). Possibly due to opamp output stage? It's anyway lower than Modi MB, too.

    2. Harmonics are BEAUTIFULLY even-ordered. I don't believe I hear those harmonics at such a low level. But I generally prefer dacs with (well-behaved) harmonics to those with nearly zero harmonics (e.g., Chord) or odd-ordered. Note that this is my personal myth rather than scientific reasoning.

    upload_2019-8-28_20-18-29.png
    (unbalanced rca out; 1k fft)

    3. Balanced and unbalanced results are too similar. Suspect balanced outs are generated via phase spilitter (which I think better than active summing stages).

    4. I can't fully understand why 18 bit dac chip (per channel) can handle very low-level signal this well.... strange. Note 18 bits = 108db. Graph below is saying this dac has perfect gain linearity down to -110db. And even below that, it behaves nicely enough.

    upload_2019-8-28_20-22-18.png

    No piece of measurements indicates how this dac actually sounds. But the results consistently hint me that this dac could be a solid performer.
     
  7. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    The OG Gungnir Multibit was known for this. The output stage wasn't capable of driving lower impedance loads. This of course would be amp dependent. A2 fixed this issue, and I would expect the opamps to be able to drive x2 impedance loads as low as 600-ohms without an issue.
     
  8. Clemmaster

    Clemmaster Friend

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    D/S DACs can have good linearity with just 1 to 5 bits, too. Oversampling + noise shaping will make that happen.
     
  9. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    Mike is such a tease huh?
     
  10. songmic

    songmic Gear cycler East Asia edition

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    Maybe I’m being overly optimistic, but will the Unison USB module be implemented to those small DAC module cards that go into Jot/Lyr 3/Rag 2/Asgard 3? Or will they only be applied to pre-existing DACs that support Gen 5 USB?
     
  11. Azimuth

    Azimuth FKA rtaylor76, Friend

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    I belive in context is a d/s technology that he talks about right before this quote.

    "I threw a little more money at a Delta Sigma DAC to see if I could make it please me more than other ds DACs I had done before...(blah...something about musicians and producers...) Here is the result I did not expect...."

    He also mentions balanced outputs the cheap and easy way.

    Anyway, there is now a big gap between the Modi 3 at $99 and Bifrost 2 at $699. Just thinking out loud.

    ahem....and back to your regularly scheduled program.
     
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2019
  12. Alcophone

    Alcophone Acquaintance

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    They wouldn't happen to be on sockets so I can stick some SparkoS opamps in, would they?
     
  13. Mindbender

    Mindbender Acquaintance

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    1. (Answered at another site): Will the Unison USB upgrade require (my 2 month-old) existing Yggdrasil's to be sent back to the company for installation? No


    2. Also, what will the Unison USB upgrade roughly cost?


    Thanks!

    (Edited: Because I left SBAF to check another forum and yup, Jason pointed out the answer...)
     
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2019
  14. Taverius

    Taverius Smells like sausages

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    I believe that was always part of the plan, though that will be a reduced form - full unison eats as much board real estate as gen 5, probably because the isolation transformers can only get so small.
     
  15. rlow

    rlow A happy woofer

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    Apparently only Gungnir Multibit will require a trip back to Schiit to get the Unison upgrade, due to a required firmware update. Yggdrasil and Bifrost Multibit won’t require that, and I expect Schiit to offer just the Unison board to be shipped out, like they did with the Gen 5 board.

    Of course in this case you’re on your own to do the upgrade, like the Gen 5 board.

    Edit: like @allegro says however, you do that at your own risk.
     
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2019
  16. Sqveak

    Sqveak Friend

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    Jason posted a photo of the internals on the first page of this thread.
    It's all surface mount. Not a socket in sight.
     
  17. allegro

    allegro Friend

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    You might not have to return your Yggdrasil to Schiit for the Unison USB board, but I probably will. I just don't feel comfortable possibly getting in over my head taking that beast apart and not being able to get it sorted properly. Yes I watched the videos. I would rather leave it to Schiit's techs who do it for a living.

    Another thought is resale value. I don't have any plans to replace Yggdrasil at all. Having an invoice from Schiit that the Unison board was installed at the mother ship and the DAC brought up to date if there were any running changes would keep resale value high. Plus I have an excuse to buy a new B2 to use while I am waiting:)
     
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2019
  18. Biodegraded

    Biodegraded Friend

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    Just to show it's impossible to please all of the people all of the time: on a DAC at this price point, rather than balanced outputs I'd like to have seen another coaxial input - RCA or BNC - or the optical input replaced with one. It'd be a nice feature for we strange people who like to run S/PDIF from CD players/transports as well as from streamers.

    Edit: Or on a DAC below this price point - add to wishlist for a Modi Multibit form-factor update...
     
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2019
  19. ohshitgorillas

    ohshitgorillas Friend

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    ^ same. I am confused as to why RCA coax is so dominant when it physically cannot meet the 75 ohm spec. I've been looking into modding some of my gear to use BNC instead of RCA. It's not like BNC cables are hard to come by...
     
  20. YMO

    YMO Chief Fun Officer

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    Look behind the majority of CD players and transports. The reality is BNC isn't on most equipment we are going to use.
     

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