Discussion in 'Power Amps' started by purr1n, Jan 24, 2017.
Do you mean because it's efficient? Because mine are pretty efficient. Low 90s.
According to JBL spec for 4698b: 103db @ 1W/1m. They fudge, but you get the idea.
Yeah. My speakers are just under 90.
I love this thread. I love this forum.
I've got the itch for a new amp with more, hmm hard to put into words what I seek but I guess "character" is a good way to put it. I'm running a pair of Klipsch Heresy III with NAD C372 (Macbook Tidal > Modi Multibit > C372) . Plenty of power, and it's hard to complain about the sound but, ya know.
The Vidar seems like a good option, perhaps a good pairing with the Heresy, Also probably pretty good with most speakers. Now I'm also curious about the Aegir. Don't need a lot of power in this room, nor with Heresy. However I do rotate other speakers through here for fun. Forte II, SVS Ultra bookshelf, Martin Logan Motion 5, crappy but oddly delightful Philharmonic NAAM, and any others I get my paws on. I like to adopt stray craigslist speakers from time to time.
Anyway, I assume the Vidar or Aegir would be an upgrade from my NAD, at least in the ways I'm after. Proposed path would be: Macbook Tidal > Modi Multibit > Asgard 2 > Vidar/Aegir Decent little Schiit stack me thinks.
I'm sure a better pre-amp would be advisable but, when I've used the Asgard 2 as a preamp I rather liked it (I also have the NAD C272 amp).
Apologies for the rambling stream of consciousness above - I came back to edit for clarity but I can't edit or delete that post for some reason.
If it can be deleted, please do.
-Deciding between Vidar and Aegir
-Small room, Heresy III + SVS SB13 Ultra
-Supplanting NAD C372
-Weak link will be Asgard2 as pre
--Budget later for Freya S possibly
--ModiMulti in use, love it feel no need to change
Why replace the NAD C372? I want more body, more character, more warmth. The NAD is too polite, a little bit boring but otherwise I dig it, will keep it around and service it.
Others can speak better to your question of Aegir vs Vidar (I've only owned Vidar), but honestly I'd first take your Asgard off preamp duty if you really want a good indication of what a better power amp will do. Heck, you might even find your NAD cuts the mustard when it's being fed a clean signal.
I'd find a used Saga for cheap, or better yet just grab a SYS for 50 bucks and you'll be better prepared to evaluate power amps if you're still not happy with the NAD.
For future reference, there's a two-channel advice thread that would be better suited for questions like this: https://www.superbestaudiofriends.org/index.php?threads/the-two-channel-advice-thread.3191/
This is good advice. I bought a Sys a couple of months ago after suspecting that my current antiquated preamp and/or amp sucked. It really helped me dissect the system and determine that A. My amp was not great. B. My preamp was a mushy overcooked ramen disaster, and C. Both needed to go!
Ah thanks for referring me to a more appropriate thread. FWIW - the NAD C372 is an integrated amp, I feed it directly from my ModiMulti. I refer to using my headphone amp (Asgard 2) as a pre temporarily with an amp (like the Vidar or Aegir when I acquire one). I have used the Asgard 2 as a pre out of curiosity with my NAD C272 - which is the stand alone amp version of the C372. It did sound pretty good to my ears, if not better than the C372 by itself (would need to test that further with intent to compare).
I think I'd rather plan for the Freya S, rather than spend 300 on the Saga S. Better yet just buy the Freya S + Aegir/Vidar at the same time. My budget concerns are more about being responsible with my purchases, as I have a habit of spending swaths of money on impulse and wondering why I will likely never retire haha.
I have recently stumbled into the USB nervosa thing as well. Therefore an Eitr is likely in my future, unfortunately. Sometimes it's better to not know such a thing - I don't hear anything strange with my Macbook USB to ModiMulti to NAD, in fact the improvement with the Modi has been fantastic. But now that I know the signal is potentially fubar, well I have to decrappify it.
I think I'll just do it all at once this time (again) Eitr + Freya S + Aegir (leaning that way)
Could be part of my issue with my NAD, though performance is in line with expectations - it really doesn't sound bad at all, and good grief it's got gas. I just want something different.
You'd like Polish Cube Audio Magus or Nenuphar then. Widebanders meant for transmission lines with no x-overs in-between, and based on proprietary local tech. Very cool and very good sounding. Magus is essentially a widebander for people scared of this stuff
I've never heard widebanders able to go with class D and in general machines of high DF, but the Magus did it quite impressively with pretty much everything I had nearby. Low power valves were still the best of course.
Class D tends to work better with traditional speaker designs < 89db, thicker surrounds, naturally great bass extension, complex passive overs, etc.
Exactly, I agree. My point was that widebanders loaded with transmission lines shouldn't work with class D, but this one did and this surprised me tremendously.
Anyone have recommendations for epic vintage Class A amps that can be had for reasonable prices?
Before boxing up and sending out my newly sold M-22, I wanted to test it for the buyer. Upon testing, I found the most amazing synergy between it and my BAT tube preamp. I never got achieved that kind of sound using the M-22 with a Saga. Should have tried it with the BAT earlier, but oh well.
Had a strong desire to make an excuse and keep the M-22, but ultimately wanted to honor the deal (he had already paid). Now the obvious answer is get another M-22, but while I'm exploring Class A amps, I may as well ask around. I've already reviewed the Aegir - it was very good but not epic.
Two amps that keep popping up are the Sumo Nine and Son Of Ampzilla, which some report will be better then the M-22. Anyone heard these?
Accuphase for that mellower Pioneer M-22 tone.
I get the same thing with my M-22 and my Don Sachs Model 2 6SN7 line stage. I love the M-22 and like my KT88 tube amp a bit more. It's enough of a bit more to matter, but the M-22 is still the best solid state amp I have heard.
I just read online that Jason from @schiit was responsible for designing the Sumo Ten. Maybe he could chip in with some thoughts?
I think it was the Sumo Ten I heard where I worked back in the late 80's. If it's the Sumo Class A that was about 20 watts. I don't think I ever heard the Nine. I don't remember much other than the Ten sounded great on Klipschorns. The Adcom, NAD, Counterpoint stuff from that era sounded a lot grittier on horns. The Sumo was smooth with good detail. Not warmpoo.
The GAS Ampzilla and S.O.Ampzilla I heard on several occasions as a local tech wizard loved to mod them and I knew a couple of guys that owned them, but I never heard either one stock. Sadly the wizard died earlier this year. RIP DJK.
With either the SUMO or the GAS amps, I'd be concerned about parts availability when the output devices go tits up.
@PTS why not a First Watt? Clones come up relatively cheap every once in a while. Haven't spent much time with them aside from my F7 and the Amp Camp monos, but given how simply designed they all are (and their power spec falls within the M22's range) I feel the character of your preamp will come through well.
A simple FW F5 DIY kit should be in the ball park of $500 or so. @brencho and @bazelio could probably give you some more info on the F5 and F7 with their first hand knowledge.
@E_Schaaf Having heard your First Watt clone in my system, I'm definitely on the lookout. Was just curious about higher wattage Class A vintage gems that haven't exploded in popularity (and price) like the M-22. As @crazychile said, maintenance and parts are the downfalls of vintage, although I would hope modern equivalents to specific capacitors, transformers, etc, exist.
The Sumo Nine is Class A 65 watts at 8ohms.
The GAS Son Of Ampzilla is Class A 80 watts into 8ohms.
doable if buying second hand but an appropriate case for any of the FW series will set you back at minimum $400. The last one I built - I thought I could get away with buying the chassis parts as raw metal sheets and it still came to about $400 for the chassis alone.
I will put together a list of amps that I have kept an eye on over the past few years - occasionally they pop up at very reasonable prices.
Separate names with a comma.