DAP discussion thread

I use coax out Fiio X5iii to Modius to Mj1. I figured this was a good way to sidestep USB nervosa.

 

I have a question for those that use their DAPs outside of the home. How do you wear/carry your DAP when you're listening on the go? I'm just wondering if there's a better way than the quick release clip/mount system I've been using for years now. I got it from Amazon, it's no longer available but HERE is one just like it on Aliexpress. I can clip my dap to a pocket, belt, armband, etc. I'm curious what others are using.

Spoiler: Pics of my clip setup

 

I just stole this guy’s idea for my Walkman

Post in thread 'SONY NW-WM1Z M2 / WM1A M2'
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sony-nw-wm1z-m2-wm1a-m2.962054/post-17438520

 

This one - https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/dewalt-smartphone-holder-1239602

And there is also this one that is cheaper - https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01C2O0F6U/

 

I just got a pair of Empire Ears Legend X which has a impedence of 14 ohms.
Use a Ibasso DX170 DAP, would people say upgrading to something like DX260 or Kann Alpha is not needed as it wont give me much on these IEMs and I have no over ear headphones that may use the extra power?

 

Recently upgraded from an iBasso DX90 to a DX180 and am really enjoying it. Very happy to have a balanced connection for my headphones!

The included player application is a bit.... idk... limiting? It works decent enough, but there's features and small things missing. iBasso also, imo, has a bit of a track record of not updating devices after the next version comes out, so I don't really want to count on those things being changed or fixed in updates down the line. I've mainly been using UAPP (USB Audio Player Pro) as the main playback software, which is great... but in general I do not like programs that need to have an internet connection in order to validate their license to work. There is a period of time where it will work fine offline, but that doesn't do too much for my paranoia about such things.

Unfortunately, the Android ecosystem for proper music player apps (meaning they do not change the sample rate when playing) is EXTREMELY limited. All I've really found is UAPP and a couple other ones. Luckily Plex Amp and Qobuz both support playback via native sample rates. The problem is that, for the longest time, Android only supported 48kHz sample rate playback (meaning everything got resample to 48kHz) and most of the apps on the market still behave this way.

Obviously, being that I've spent good money on hardware that will happily play high-res content, I have no interest in software that won't play it back natively.

What Android music software do y'all use / enjoy? I still think UAPP is the best at this point, but that pesky license validation "issue" just makes me uncomfortable and I would love to find a suitable alternative.

 

I use Neutron MP, even if the interface is decidedly early 90s. There's an option in Audio Hardware > Follow Source Frequency, and you can set whichever driver the android audioflinger works with. Pretty sure it was discussed somewhere in this thread.

 

Need a recommendation.

Like to buy my daughter a DAP that can use Apple Music, android based, blue tooth and plug in options. Trying to stay away from a smart phone, because she is not old enough for that yet. But I would like to have a device that plays music to her blue tooth headphones and plug in headphones. Something reasonable inexpensive.
An available case to ease the drop damage would be favorable.

My google fu is weak, and I have not found anything that did not cost $500+

Thanks in advance!

 

What about the Hiby M300? Or bigger, I'd go Hiby R4. Those are the two I'd consider.

 

You could have just replied in the correct thread, you know.

Anyway, that's nice. Manufacturers playing around with tubes in a DAP is no different than R2R or anything else. You might not like it, but who's twisting your arm? The Android complaint is a nonstarter to me as well. It's not advertised as a general purpose Android device and it doesn't really matter to me if it's running Android, vanilla Linux, or Windows CE under the hood, especially since it boots right to the player interface. What matters is whether it works as a DAP, and the answer is "kinda yes, kinda no".

In any event, there aren't any good options out there that are guaranteed to get support over time. My advice is just to get whatever works for you sonically and keep WiFi turned off. You'll forfeit streaming, but if I wanted to do that I'd be using my phone or iPad anyway.

 

Brah, think about what you are saying. T00Bs are harmonic items that pick up noises as f**k. Works best on a desk or living room setup, but really retarded to work in a DAP where your hands are moving the unit that can introduce noise due to the nature of how T00Bs operate on top of being near the unit built-in Wi-Fi adapter. I have a strong feeling Cayin didn't put any Wi-Fi on their cheap T00B DAP is due to the layout of their T00B amp will introduce a heavy amount of digital noise in the audio chain. I also expect some IEM users will not want the extra noise of T00Bs in their chain. Keep the T00B stuff for a desktop setup on personal audio IMO.

R2R on a DAP is dealing with a lot of short comings also. Size and running off a DAP battery will always gimp these DAPs with R2R (need a lot of power to get R2R running good if designed right). Unlike T00Bs in DAPs, R2R in a DAP makes more sense provided if you understand how to make R2R work in a DAP (going to be a bulky unit except for the HiBy RS2, that shit is a miracle on how the hell HiBy pulled that off by itself with a small battery).

 

Yes, the tubes are microphonic. They’ve damped them pretty well, but I only use the tube mode when I’m stationary.

They’ve said as much.

You do realize you can turn off the tubes and use it in pure solid state mode, right? I get it, you don’t like the idea of having tubes in a DAP, but these are silly objections.

What? I literally have a R2R Bluetooth dongle. There’s no inherent reason why a R2R DAC should suffer a significant power disadvantage. If anything, the higher operating frequency of the D/S modulator is going to soak up more power. It’s just that cheap, small, process-optimized ICs are readily available for D/S thanks to high volume and easier production (less mixed-signal complexity).

I really don’t think this discussion is going anywhere interesting. Happy to discuss engineering tradeoffs or experience with various devices, but I’d prefer to do so based on criteria other than whether something is “retarded”.

 

I don't see the point of T00Bs in a DAP, including having a Solid State mode where you are paying extra just to have T00Bs in a DAP that can have harmonic noises. Let's call the design out as it is: Retarded.

Your R2R Bluetooth Dongle, does it eat battery? I had the Cayin RU6 Dongle, sound was solid (but others on SBAF thought it sounded like horseshit) but it was a massive battery eating if using your iPad or iPhone. R2R stuff needs power to work and it will eat your battery.

 

Most delta sigma DAPs don't use high computational power modulators. The reality of power draw has more to do with high frequency binary switching elements being super efficient, the same reason why SMPS are efficient and tiny compared to LPS. I have a Sony ZX300 that uses 1-bit modulation to forgo even needing much of an analog amplification stage, and I would bet money on it outlasting just about any DAP with a similar sized battery out there.

The issue with portable R2R is more to do with environmental factors like changing temperature and turning the power on and off to conserve battery (as any portable device should). R2R linearity definitely benefits from being kept in a stable environment and portable usecases are anything but, so the forum is a bit skeptical of portable R2R since so far most of them have measured like shit even by R2R standards. Do I want a DAP that in the winter changes sound when I come out of my heated house into the street?

 

I was solely looking at the intrinsic power aspects of delta-sigma modulator DACs vs. R2R DACs, and the power concern I was referring to has to do with switching speed, not the modulator itself. If we're just looking at 1-bit modulators as in your example, I'll challenge the view that the higher switching frequency leads to lower draw. Assuming that the DAC is acting as a current source/sink and a transimpedance stage is necessary, you still have to be sourcing or sinking current through the DAC at the average 50% duty cycle of that 1-bit modulator, and plus you've got a bunch of higher speed switches to power. Things get even worse if you're doing digital attenuation; the average duty cycle on your modulator isn't going to change with the attenuation, where the R2R DAC will just drop bits off the top, reducing the amount of current sunk through the resistor ladder.

The analogy to linear vs. switching power supplies is not relevant. R2R DACs are not akin to linear regulators in any way I can think of. Delta-sigma DACs are not pulse-width modulators. In both designs the current demand through the DAC is relatively small.

In modern mixed-signal processes a delta-sigma DAC can be stupidly efficient, but the reason why it ends up being more efficient is because of economics driving higher integration: the market demands DACs and delta-sigma is what you get, for a number of reasons including the temperature stability issue you mention below. In other words, "R2R needs more power" might be true descriptively, but it's not true prescriptively.

The direct digital amplifier in the Sony DAPs is a different matter entirely. Yes, that can be quite efficient, but that's also not what most products are using.

This is absolutely valid.

 

Recently got the Sony nw-a306, android based, Bluetooth, 3.5mm in, with google play for all music steaming apps. I am listening now to Lucinda Williams and I thinks it’s v decent indeed. Sub 500 I would say (I am uk based, imported Japanese model for under £250)

 

Still think Android on a DAP is silly, but since I got a good deal on an used iBasso DX180, one on my way. At least I paid less than what was previously on sale before the new years. If I can slim it down to being a semi dumb device on moments that I travel, mission complete on the cheap. Just don't want to spend too much money if I gotta be honest.

 

One of us! One of us!

 

Did you notice the release of the Fiio Echo Mini?

For that price worth a gamble and it is a DAP with actual buttons. The obsession with touch interfaces is ruining so many product that should be easy to use. It reminds me of what iRiver use to do and I love it. Old iRiver DAPs were amazing.