Putin's War With Ukraine (and democracy, freedom, self-determination, etc.)

Discussion in 'SBAF Blogs' started by purr1n, Feb 25, 2022.

  1. murphythecat

    murphythecat GRU-powered uniformed trumpkin

    Pyrate Banned
    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2016
    Likes Received:
    1,201
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Spotted in another forum. Not sure if its all true. Any thoughts folks?



    The lying MSM would have you believe that Ukraine is a war zone with intense battles taking place between Russians and the Ukrainian army. But.

    1. The Ukrainian army was decisively defeated within the first 48 hours of Russia's operation. It is no longer functional. Most soldiers have deserted. Ukraine has been effectively demilitarized. That's why Zelensky is calling for foreign fighters. That's also why he's getting civilians to take up arms and fight. Why would he do it if he still had a proper army?

    2. All that's left are rag tag groups of soldiers still loyal to Zelensky and whatever's left of Azov battalion. They're trying to wage a guerilla war like Saddam's army remnants but without much success. They're simply losing men and being chased around from one area to the next

    3. Apart from a few skirmishes there's actually very little fighting going on. Think I'm bullshitting? Remember the wars of recent times, in Afghanistan, Iraq etc? The media constantly showed us videos of gun fights where you hear machine gun fire between the 2 competing forces. But no such videos exist of the Russia-Ukraine conflict. Why?? If the Ukrainians are fighting Russians in the streets and killing thousands of them, where are the videos of it?

    4. Most of the videos of smashed tanks are faked for pro-Ukraine propaganda. Either they're old videos fron 2014. Or they're manipulated. The Ukrainians pick a video with a tank and digitally add a Z on it. Or they paint a Z on one of their own wrecked tanks. While it's true that Russian hardware have been destroyed, the numbers are nowhere as high as what's being claimed by the Ukrainians. The Ukrainians did the most damage to Russian hardware during the early days of the conflict.

    5. While some Russians have been captured by Ukrainians, the vast majority of captured soldiers shown by pro-Ukraine media are fakes. They're Ukrainians in uniforms similar to that which Russians wear.

    6. All that's happening is that the Russians are blowing up the Ukrainian military buildings one by one as part of their demilitarization plan. Once in a while they'll fight off a small pocket of Ukrainian fighters. But there is no actual "war" as the MSM wants you to think.

    7. NATO isn't helping Ukraine because there's no Ukrainian army left for them to reinforce or support. It's over. So that's why they are just sanctioning Russia. They lost Ukraine and they know it.

    8. If you still doubt it, then think of the huge 3 mile long convoy of Russian vehicles near Kiev. It's been 4 days and it's still there. It hasn't been touched by the Ukrainian army because the Ukrainian army no longer exists.
     
    • Miss Information Miss Information x 7
    • Dislike Dislike x 1
    • List
  2. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

    Staff Member Pyrate BWC
    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2015
    Likes Received:
    89,984
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Padre Island CC TX
    But it's not just pulling their own weight. For the twentieth time, I'm not sure people actually understand what NATO is. It means that if Russia attacks a member nation, then NATO is obligated to defend. And by NATO, what this really means is the United States, and to a lesser part France and UK. This is why France has waffled about NATO in the past, thinking if the shit really hit the fan, will the USA really help? This is why US Presidents every few years or so need to reaffirm the USA's commitment to NATO and why Trump spooked the shit out of NATO.

    A big problem with NATO is that so many NATO countries are energy dependent upon NATO's unsaid enemy.
    upload_2022-3-5_8-39-48.png

    This entire notion of a mutual destruction alliance, few countries pulling their weight with respect to military expenditures, and not just that - member countries being energy dependent upon the supposed enemy.

    This notion of NATO is ABSURD!
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2022
  3. BenjaminBore

    BenjaminBore Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    May 23, 2016
    Likes Received:
    2,842
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    London, UK
    @murphythecat I just don't have the energy right now to breakdown all the issues with what you've posted. But here are a few sources I've been following with updates on the situation today and last night, which might be a bit more reputable than a random forum user.

    Liveblog at the The Guardian
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/l...mbing-with-lack-of-no-fly-zone-says-zelenskiy

    Vlog by British Journalist in Ukraine
    https://twitter.com/johnsweeneyroar/status/1500022349822836738

    Thread by just retired Australian General
    https://twitter.com/WarintheFuture/status/1499891108309987328

    Thread by Geopolitical and Security Analyst
    https://twitter.com/michaelh992/status/1499963847779758094

    Thread by Eastern Europe Expert
    https://twitter.com/sumlenny/status/1499822066098655234

    The bottom three, especially the last one, I've only been following recently so I'm less aware of their track record. Though they were linked to by people I am.
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2022
  4. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

    Staff Member Pyrate BWC
    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2015
    Likes Received:
    89,984
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Padre Island CC TX
    Some truths but also a lot of bullshit:
    1. Ukraine never had a standing army that could go mano-a-mano against Russia. They do have units who are taking potshots at the Russians. The Russians failed in their objectives of a quick 24-victory, but they do hold the upper hand and have major cities under siege.
    2. Essentially this is true. Ukraine military units are resorting to guerilla tactics, taking potshots at the rear of the convoys, the supply lines. Functioning units are likely special forces and those experienced. A real army vs army engagement would have resulted in a lot more death and explosions. Most of the speculator victories were of Russian recon and infiltration units getting picked off.
    3. True. See #2.
    4. Dumb argument because there really aren't that many photos of smashed Russian tanks. Maybe two that I've seen.
    5. Again, dumb argument because there really that many photos of captured or dead Russians.
    6. That's absolutely bullshit from the people who I and others have spoken to in Ukraine. Random buildings are being destroyed in Kharkiv. People have expressed that they are afraid and want to leave (and possibly already left because I have no more contact with them).
    7. NATO isn't helping because Ukraine isn't part of NATO and NATO doesn't want WW3. However NATO member nations have helped by sending missiles.
    8. Nice spin, but that three mile convoy hasn't moved much either. It's probably because of Ukrainian units taking potshots, running interference in the supply lines, and having success in setting up ambushes that is restricting the convoy's movement.
    Finally, we don't know how bad things are for Russia's forces. Russia isn't saying.
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2022
  5. murphythecat

    murphythecat GRU-powered uniformed trumpkin

    Pyrate Banned
    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2016
    Likes Received:
    1,201
    Trophy Points:
    93
    So half true. So fair to say the propaganda machine from the West are basically lying constantly? Why? Whats the agenda?
     
    • Miss Information Miss Information x 1
    • List
  6. YMO

    YMO Chief Fun Officer

    Pyrate Contributor
    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2018
    Likes Received:
    10,580
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Palms Of The Coasts, FL
    Sitting at the Eastern Euro Cafe while my car is having general maintenance done.

    The Bosnian owner of the café show me this on his phone:

    [​IMG]

    All the Bosnians and Eastern Europeans at the café are laughing their ass off.
     
  7. Cellist88

    Cellist88 Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2015
    Likes Received:
    1,608
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    NJ
    @murphythecat Deflection and distraction from our own domestic matters. Cough cough away from Covid, inflation, other electoral matters.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Miss Information Miss Information x 1
    • List
  8. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

    Staff Member Pyrate BWC
    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2015
    Likes Received:
    89,984
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Padre Island CC TX
    Lying is the cynical view. Both sides do have propaganda machines as they should. I would expect no less. I recognize CNN for what it is, so that why I read the WSJ which is less "spectacular" with its war reporting, seems a day or two behind, won't bother mentioning exciting tales of bravery which cannot be verified.

    The agenda is entertainment and viewers. If you've ever been interviewed by news media, you will realize that they will usually craft a story that has nothing to do with what they said they were interviewing you for. They often have a story they want to tell, and pick bits to suit that narrative.

    Just turn off dumb news. I don't feel lied to at all, because I consider all sources, including RT.

    Also, did it occur to you that what was posted on another forum could be Russian propaganda?
     
  9. BenjaminBore

    BenjaminBore Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    May 23, 2016
    Likes Received:
    2,842
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    London, UK
    https://twitter.com/nexta_tv/status/1499763642170019846
    Video attached but not in English. Not necessarily definitive, but another data point at least to try and glean the full and true picture
    "Russian Senator Lyudmila Narusova acknowledged huge losses of the #Russian army

    "Yesterday the conscripts, who were forced to sign a contract or signed for them, were withdrawn from the war zone in #Ukraine. But from a company of a hundred men only four were left alive.""
     
  10. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

    Staff Member Pyrate BWC
    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2015
    Likes Received:
    89,984
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Padre Island CC TX
    It's a deep fake!
     
  11. BenjaminBore

    BenjaminBore Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    May 23, 2016
    Likes Received:
    2,842
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    London, UK
    Doesn't look like one to me, but it is out of sync, and could still be fake for all I know. Of course I can't understand her either.

    There's so much so fast I can't background and fact check the way I would usually want to. Alot of the information I'm following originates from Peter Jukes and Carol Cadwallader. They have contributed significantly in investigating global disinformation, Russia, Brexit, Facebook etc. Breaking that news months or even years ahead of mainstream media, and have a proven track record.
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2022
  12. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

    Staff Member Pyrate BWC
    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2015
    Likes Received:
    89,984
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Padre Island CC TX
    I was kidding, but it's not a source that I totally trust. A source nevertheless though.
     
  13. Collusion

    Collusion Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2017
    Likes Received:
    1,065
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    Finland
    Invocation of the 5th article doesn't automatically mean every NATO member country must send troops to face the aggressor. The member countries can help in other ways too, like by sending equipment or even just humanitarian aid. But I understand what you are saying - NATO's real problem is the majority of the military power being centered in the North America. That needs to change.

    This is true. But I want to clarify one thing: % share of gas supply from Russia != % share of gas in energy production. For example, Finland may import 94% of its gas from Russia, but only 3-6% of the country's total energy consumption is satisfied by gas power plants.
     
  14. crenca

    crenca Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    May 26, 2017
    Likes Received:
    3,989
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Southern New Mexico
    Why is this hypocrisy? It probably is from your point of view, sitting safely in Austria with American soldiers/tanks/nukes protecting you while you judge the world from your uber neo-liberal post-Nazi hypocrisy. That might sound harsh but its the truth. f**k you western Europe for thinking you have the inside track as to who and who is not acting in good faith when it comes to democracy, freedom, and self determination.

    For the last 500 years Crimea has been much more Russian than Ukrainian - ethnically, governmentally, culturally - in every way that matters. It was the machinations of Soviet politics that had Crimea part of the Ukraine for the what is a blink of an eye historically.

    Don't get me wrong, I hope and pray Ukrainian "wins", that is a Ukrainian state independent of Russian control comes out of all this. That said, the ethnic/cultural divide in what are the modern borders of Ukrainian state is very real and just about impossible for ignorant American and western Europeans to even understand.
     
    • Dislike Dislike x 1
    • Miss Information Miss Information x 1
    • List
  15. Collusion

    Collusion Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2017
    Likes Received:
    1,065
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    Finland
    If you apply this logic all over the world you'd redraw a lot of borders. There's no way the referendum held in Crimea after the Russian occupation was legit.

    What I do understand is President Zelensky has an approval rating of over 90%. And he is all for independent Ukraine.
     
  16. Tchoupitoulas

    Tchoupitoulas Friend

    Pyrate Contributor
    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2019
    Likes Received:
    3,791
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    PA
    Come on, this is unnecessary.
     
    • Like Like x 3
    • Respectfully Disagree Respectfully Disagree x 2
    • List
  17. Kernel Kurtz

    Kernel Kurtz Friend

    Pyrate Contributor
    Joined:
    May 19, 2018
    Likes Received:
    1,696
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    Winnipeg, Canada
    A good source of info that I have been following is the open-source intelligence group Bellingcat, who did excellent journalism in the wake of the shooting down of MH17 over Ukraine in 2014

    https://www.bellingcat.com/

    As always YMMV
     
  18. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

    Staff Member Pyrate BWC
    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2015
    Likes Received:
    89,984
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Padre Island CC TX
    Absolutely, particularly when snark is employed based on misunderstanding of US policy.
     
  19. james444

    james444 Mad IEM modding wizard level 99

    Pyrate Flathead IEMW
    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2016
    Likes Received:
    2,101
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    Vienna, Austria
    Well, from my pov it's definitely *hypocrisy*. At first, she supports armed separatists who fight a Russian-backed covert war, aiming to divide the Donbas region from Ukraine. And now, as shit hits the fan for her, she tries to sell herself as an apolitical artist, opposed to war, proclaiming that her only purpose is to unite people across political divides.

    Of course, you have every right to draw your own conclusion from this, but I'd prefer you do so without calling me a "neo-liberal post-Nazi hypocrite". Again, I'm nevertheless opposed to cancel culture, i.e. against banning Anna Netrebko from the Met and other venues. So let's just agree to disagree on her personal attitude and keep our discourse civil please.
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2022
  20. zerodeefex

    zerodeefex SBAF's Imelda Marcos

    Staff Member Pyrate BWC
    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2015
    Likes Received:
    14,091
    Trophy Points:
    113
    @murphythecat gets 3 months off for posting bullshit fake news. When you're back, if you participate in any political discourse, you get a perma.

    This goes for anyone who is willing to be a mouthpiece of the GRU-fueled trumpkin bullshit being peddled online. This is what has eroded much of the functional world and we're not going to be an outlet for it. Putin's shit can be spread elsewhere.

    You know what my team of engineers in Russia is most terrified of? Being conscripted into the GRU and being expected to spread this kind of crap globally. It boggles my f'ing mind that we're sitting on the sidelines letting a foreign adversary to most of the world seep garbage into our everyday discourse until the dumbest, most outlandish shit is accepted as "an alternate viewpoint."

    The impoverishment of our political discourse hasn't come from intolerance, it's come from Putin realizing that polarizing garbage flooding the internet is an effective mechanism to destabilize his adversaries and weaken then western world. Don't be a part of it here.
     
    • Like Like x 12
    • Epic Epic x 10
    • List

Share This Page