Elex and Eclair discussion thread

Discussion in 'Headphones' started by Vtory, Apr 27, 2018.

  1. Hands

    Hands Overzealous Auto Flusher - Measurbator

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    Roll some warmer tubes in the LP if you haven’t yet. The stock ones won’t do the Focals any favors (then again, I find them all bright or shouty as is).
     
  2. lm4der

    lm4der A very good sport - Friend

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    I'm thinking you meant for my valhalla2 (not the LP)? I have a tube roll that is wetter than stock in my valhalla2, but not warm really. So that may be a way to go. Honestly I think the elex may be too bright/peaky or something for my ears. Which is sad for me. I wanted to love this hp.
     
  3. Babbage78

    Babbage78 New

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    Sorry to bring up an older comment, but I just recently received a Metrum Amethyst and found that the headphone amp seemed to be a bit more dynamic and had a noticeably larger sound stage than my Arcam rHead. I see that you mentioned that the HP out isn't spectacular so I was wondering what you would consider a noticeable jump up from the Amethyst's HP out?
     
  4. Ash1412

    Ash1412 Friend

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    I think Hands was replying to @Soups . Anyway, @purr1n said he was going to make an Elex appreciation thread with some modding guide to tame the treble, so you can always wait for that and see, but damping won't completely get rid of the "all out" nature of the Focals and you might just not be into that presentation.
    But yes, I've developed a fear for amps labelled "versatile" from FOTM syndrome like Jot, Lyr and even my Liquid Platinum I wouldn't say is completely versatile with the SE out being way worse than balanced out and the somewhat dry sound. Synergy, at least with amps and headphones in my experience, is very much a real thing but also subjective with the commission, omission stuff and people preferring different mixes of both. The Focals will show a lot more of their qualities (bad and good) than the Senns will at the same level of amp, so what you want might be to find something that omits enough or is warm enough for them to be pleasurable, like a THX 789 or Lyr 3.
     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2019
  5. zonto

    zonto Friend

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    If the Elex is anything like the Utopia, it is really designed for lower volume listeners. Anything above the high 70s average dB on my iPhone app and I don’t like the Utopia. So one must decide if they want (1) superior resolution, more unnatural timbre and to protect their hearing or (2) worse resolution, more natural timbre and to rock out a bit. The lower volume isn’t as noticeable as with other headphones like Sennheisers because the Focals sound so immediate and there’s less between ear and driver. The other theoretical benefit of lower volume listening is less stress on the drivers, which may be more prone to failure than other reputable brands and with a company that is worse to deal with for warranty issues than most others.
     
  6. Ash1412

    Ash1412 Friend

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    I can't completely agree with that, since if they are designed for lower volume, wouldn't they be a little more V-shaped to compensate for the Fletcher-Munson curve? I personally find that when I got the bass dialed in on Focals at a good level where it sounds neutral to me (my usual 80-85), they definitely sounded more "stressed" than the Senns.
     
  7. Hands

    Hands Overzealous Auto Flusher - Measurbator

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    I was responding to the previous poster about the LP Elex pairing.

    The Valhalla 2 may be a bit too dry and lean for the Focals in general. The LP is more full and wetter sounding, even with stock tubes.

    Did you see my Elear mods regarding using tiny pieces of adhesive velcro and placing a foam disk cutout over the driver to tame the treble? This really went a long way on the Clear.
     
  8. Hands

    Hands Overzealous Auto Flusher - Measurbator

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    Damn, that rHead must have been awful...no offense.

    There are certain headphones that strangely work well from the Amethyst HP out, but I’d be inclined to take the inexpensive Magni 3 or Vali 2 over that. Generally better sound, works better with a wider variety of headphones.

    The Focals are tricky because of their impedance and impedance curve. They respond somewhat noticeably to higher output impedances. The Amethyst may be boosting the bass on the Elex.

    In that regard, you may enjoy the ZDT Jr. with the lower OI jack.
     
  9. Superexchanger

    Superexchanger Friend

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    Going to take a swing at describing what I hear with the Focal Elex as a first attempt to more rigorously define aspects of a piece of equipment I own. As I do more of this (probably necro-ing a few threads along the way - I change gear slowly and rarely get the latest things) I may refine the tone or approach or structure, but either way this is an interesting exercise I’ve been looking forward to trying out. Apologies in advance if some terminology is used in an unclear or contradictory way; this should improve with time as I’m exposed to more impressions.

    Equipment used in evaluation, with preferences/biases included in spoiler section below:

    Equipment used in the evaluation:
    • All PC-based transport
      • Roon (Redbook sources, WASAPI hardware control ensuring RAAT lossless transport except where noted)
      • Spotify
      • Amazon Music HD
    • DDC
      • Singxer SU-1 (pre DAC for Holo Cyan)
    • DAC or DAC/Amp
      • Schiit Fulla 2 (5V USB power, data from USB)
      • Chord Mojo (Battery powered, data from USB)
      • Holo Audio Cyan PCM (data from SU-1 I2S out)
      • Denon AVR-X3300W (1/4’’ headout, Roon airplay streaming + Spotify Connect as sources)

    Sound Preferences/biases:


    Music character: Primarily aggressive/fast or highly layered music, with low to moderate dynamic range. Often guitar driven (highly distorted), or busy electronic music is used (90%). Occasional audiophile-grade Classical/Jazz recordings (10%)

    Tonality: General preference for sound tilts away from bright/lean and towards “euphonic” or “warm”, though this is not always firm. Using EQ, I’ve identified that increased relative amplitudes in the 1-3 kHz region create a personally unpleasant effect; transducers that mitigate this are easier for me to appreciate. Measured/observed overcorrection or “recessed mids” can subjectively register as acceptable-to-pleasing to my ear.

    Listening Behavior: Most levels kept around 75-85 dB. Excursions into the 90’s are possible when I’m really feeling something. Regarding EQ: interesting to experiment with, prefer not to worry about it.

    Touchstones: Current “gold standard” listening device is a Campfire Audio Solaris, typically with a Chord Mojo. I’ve found this IEM to be relatively source independent.

    Preamble

    Of the full-size headphones I’ve had the opportunity to own, this one presented the most significant initial challenge to fully appreciate. I’d read conflicting and varied accounts of the Elex’s character, with descriptions ranging from a grating metallic timbre, an in-your-face ASMR-inducing experience even at low volume, and an easy to enjoy and detailed listen. Often these descriptions were bereft of upstream equipment details, but I noted that tube amps tended to produce the most liked pairings when those details were available. Not having a tube amp my purchase was inexplicable except for a specific curiosity about the Utopia (and Focal offerings in general), and several aligning impressions that Elex was reasonably close in technicality for less than a quarter of the price. Jumping on a used deal, I’ve now lived with it for many months.

    Phase I: Small Solid-State Devices

    Initial listening was done with the Fulla 2, and straight away the tonal characteristics were unpleasant. Lack of body presented issues with electronica, where the presentation felt thin and unsatisfying. With guitar-emphasized recordings (punk, hardcore, etc.), the perceptive lack of bass in combination with a strong mids to upper-mids emphasis created a “shouty” character that didn’t flatter the material. Guitars on familiar recordings were forward with a good amount of crunch and a significant amount of “pop” or liveliness but timbre didn’t seem correct or matching expectations with material heard on a wider range of devices. This is hard to explain; I did not perceive the “metallic” sound other’s had noted, but something like a “heat” in the upper registers that was actually most noticeable with brass instruments like a trumpet; these would occasionally cut through the mix to near physical discomfort at moderate listening levels. Despite the tonal issues, temporal rendering of material seemed excellent. The drivers produced a very tactile, articulate presentation that seemed capable of sorting out layers in aggressive/noisy/congested recordings. This kind of nimbleness clarity was refreshing, but the images rendered were harshly tinted. All of these issues persisted when moving to a Chord Mojo; I did not perceive a significant change in sound when alternating between two low Z-out solid state devices. Bizarrely, I decided to try the Elex straight out of the variable pre-out on the rear of the Fulla 2, and here I noticed a more agreeable tonal balance, bringing in what seemed like a few dB in the midbass region. This went a long way towards alleviating some of the above issues and seemed like a stable solution for long term use, but later I noticed this output introduced a difficult to characterize “haze” not noticed with the standard output jack. Initial hypothesis was that higher Z-out devices synergized well given my target tonal response.

    Phase II: AVR Experimentation

    Around this time, I had discovered comments by @westermac about impedance/damping and thought I would try the Elex with the headout on a Denon AVR. I don’t know for sure, but I doubt the unit has a discreet headphone amplifier and more likely has a resistor-gated output from speaker amplifier stage. The expectation was that this output (if configured as assumed) would have very large Z-out and possibly tilt the headphone in a warmer direction. Assumptions aside, the output on the AVR produced a shockingly bassy presentation. The baseline FR seemed to have been tilted up by +6 dB from midbass sloping into the lower mids. Using the same suite of tracks used previously, the presentation became much more like the Solaris, minus the razor-sharp imaging of that IEM. Though the FR balanced into what I now could live with, the separation of instruments within the mix and general clarity was compromised. This is again difficult to explain, but with aid from an analogy to image processing this came across like a Gaussian blur or something similar applied to the sound. I shelved the headphone not being able to get it into the Goldilocks zone with anything I owned.

    Phase III: Desktop Solutions and Permanent Home

    I recently purchased a Holo Audio Cyan from a friend here, as I wanted to try an AIO upgrade to what I had owned, to explore NOS DAC sound, and have a unit that provided some Z-out flexibility with BAL or SE outputs that fits on my office desk. This unit provided a nice substrate to try the Elex again, and with this I have (finally) come to a set of conditions where the Elex really shines. NOS set, balanced output, with high Z-out. NOS (vs. OS on this Cyan) removes a significant portion of the “heat” on the upper registers, high Z-out emphasizes the midbass up to the mids without loss of clarity, while the balanced output effect (while very minor) seems to have a positive effect on the liveliness, and music seems to hit harder (plucked strings, snares, quick start/stop electronica have a percussive attack).

    The presentation still feels mid-focused with echoes of the shout that dominated the early experience. In a headphone that seemed to present nothing but unacceptable tradeoffs, this is a minor one to grant given the clarity and articulation of complex music this setup provides. There’s probably more headroom to improve here given a nice tube amp, and that might be in store later on, but for this setup I’ve found a daily driver that serves as well for pleasurable and analytical listening.
    Worth the effort.
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2019
  10. dematted

    dematted Friend

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    Hello. I'm new to the audiophile world, and I'm also not using the best equipment, so please take my impressions here with a grain of salt. But I've been listening to the Focal Elex for around two weeks now, and I wanted to share my thoughts. For reference, I am using a Modi 2 dac which isn't in the best shape, and have tried these with the JDS Atom, Liquid Spark, and Magni 3. I'm using Tidal hi-fi tracks along with a MacBook 2017. I'm going to focus on their presentation with the Magni 3, since I feel like these were the best amp with these of the three I've listed. The other headphones I've listened to are the Focal Clears, the Hifiman 4xx's, the Sennheiser HD 600's, and the Beyerdynamic DT 880's.

    Good Things

    1. Many people talk about the dynamics on this headphone. I would say these have very good -macro- dynamics. They are excellent at conveying big changes in a given track. They also have a lot of "slam". I find myself consistently 'head banging' with these headphones more than on any other headphone I've listened to. This makes them very good for listening to aggressive pop and rock music.

    2. I really like the way this headphone presents bass. It's not overwhelming, but it has a very nice punchiness to it, and it feels textured and detailed. It also strikes me as very well-controlled, and I don't find it bleeding into the mid-range. At times, I do wish I had a little extra quantity and extension, but for the most part, I'm very satisfied with the bass here.

    2. Detail. Besides the Focal Clears, these are the most detailed headphones I have listened to. And I don't think that they lose out by that much to the Clears.

    4. Imaging and Soundstage. Though these don't have the largest soundstage, I feel like the soundstage it has is very well-defined. They have an open sound to them, especially when paired with amps besides the Magni 3.

    5. Impressive Sonic Presentation. Of all the headphones I've listened to, the overall presentation of the sound on these headphones really "wowed" me the most. The sound is very quick, especially transients, and it has a real 'authority' and punchiness to it. This makes for a lively and engaging listen. What I especially enjoy about them is that they manage to be fairly neutral without sounding clinical, analytical, or lean.

    6. The build. Although these aren't the prettiest headphone, I think the build is really excellent and solid feeling.

    Bad Things

    1. The timbre. I don't think the timbre on these are -bad-, per say. I don't often hear the "metallic" sheen that other people complain of, but that could possibly be because I haven't listened to enough headphones. However, I do feel like the timbre on these are outclassed by other headphones that are at a much lower price point. The HD 600's have superior timbre and are much less expensive. For those who place a premium on the most "natural" presentation of the music, I don't think these headphones are a good value proposition.

    2. The ear pads. It's worth knowing that the ear pads for these headphones are very expensive to replace, especially if Massdrop isn't currently selling them.

    Things I'm not certain about

    1. Overall sonic presentation. I listed this as a strength, but I'm also uncertain about it. While the fast, punchy sound of the Elex makes for a sound that really "grips" you, it also can feel like the Elex is just trying to do -too much- with certain kinds of music. For slow-moving singer-songwriter music, it can be as if the Elex is trying to force the music to do things it's not supposed to. As a result, the sound can be somewhat unnatural.

    2. Treble. Some have complained that this headphone is too bright. I don't agree with this, though I also don't feel like the treble always has the most natural sound. At the same time, I don't find it excessively grainy. I'd say this is neither a strength or weakness.

    3. Recording picky. I find that these headphones are very picky with what recordings I use. On some bad recordings, vocals in particular can sound either muffled or shouty.

    4. Vocals. I find that vocals on this headphone are generally enjoyable to listen to, but at the same time, they don't stand out like those on the HD 600. The vocals wowed me much less than the overall dynamics. Even so, I don't think that vocals are presented poorly here, especially on better recordings. If you turn the volume up too much, they can sound a tad "shouty", but this isn't a quality that bothers me too much.

    5. Comfort. These are not the most comfortable headphones for me. It may be because I have large ears, but I find that the pads compress my ears in a somewhat annoying way after long listening sessions. At the same time, I've heard people (presumably with smaller ears) not have this issue, so I'll consider this one a toss-up.
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2019
  11. PacoTaco

    PacoTaco Friend

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    I wanted to see how you guys have had the Elex hold up for you as far as it still working. I was looking into the bass clipping issue, and found a lot of people were having their drivers die to the fragile wiring in the voice coil. Utopia and Elear share this issue, while the Clear and the two closed units don't at all (meaning they don't just spontaneously die or clip at all.)

    Has anyone had that issue or have things been smooth sailing? I'm considering an Elegia or a Aeon 2 Closed for the office and an Elex at home, but I don't want to hunt down an Elex if the issues are still going on with them.
     
  12. FlySweep

    FlySweep Friend

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    I've had an Elex for a month and a half (ordered it direct from Drop). I use it everyday and haven't had a single issue with it. Admittedly, I baby it (never dropped, mishandled, etc. and it's stored in a drawer when not used). I'm not a high dB/volume listener but I do listen to a lot of bass heavy music (hop hop, DnB, electronica). I did get the drivers to clip by cranking the volume to a volume level I typically do not listen at. I was also able to get it to clip with some tracks that had really forward bass.. but again, it was turned up quite loud (for me). Aside from those (known) issues, it's been a rock solid headphone.
     
  13. Ash1412

    Ash1412 Friend

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    Utopia and Elear/Elex are the only ones with the lighter CCAW voice coils in the family. Also, the closed-backs excurse less to produce bass since they're sealed (or at least more sealed). If a used Clear gives you better peace of mind, then maybe consider that one.
     
  14. pure5152

    pure5152 Friend

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    Somewhat related anecdote, but I literally tripped over my Clear wire last night and it crashed to the floor hard from about a meter up. One of the detachable cables pulled out and it almost unplugged from the 3F; super worried a driver would fail or there would be a dent somewhere. But totally fine and no issues whatsoever, super impressed with the build quality! I've had my clears for over a year FWIW. Also tried raising the volume to "portable speaker levels" (about 11PM on the 3F dial) and no clipping with dubstep, but admittedly it scared me doing that.
     
  15. Whatup69

    Whatup69 New

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    I've had my elex since 2018 and no issues. Never had bass clipping and the pads have held up extremely well. Still like new.
     
  16. will_f

    will_f Friend

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    I think the Elex is a headphone that benefits from careful equipment selection. It’s got some huge positives though and the negatives I find pretty manageable. Below is what I decided after a year and a half or so.

    Positives include great macro and microdybamics, pinpoint imaging, clear, detailed sound, and very well controlled and distortion free bass. It’s definitely a fairly intense set of headphones and remarkably close to the Clear for quite a bit less.

    Negatives include sounding metallic with some amps. This is true for the Clear too and I found it annoyingly so plugged into my Magni3. It can sometimes be too dynamic and become fatiguing. Finally, it can be a little lacking in timbre, sounding hollowed out in the upper mids.

    Compared to the HD6XX, the Elex is less warm and less euphonic, but much clearer with much better bass and more treble extension.

    All that being said, it’s a pretty fantastic headphone when connected to slightly wet, slightly warm upstream gear and it scales with quality.
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2020
  17. loadexfa

    loadexfa MOT: rhythmdevils audio

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    Some brief impressions after purchasing my second pair of Elex. I was in the first Drop and sold them after hearing the Clears at CanJam because I liked them much better. Alas I focused elsewhere on my gear and money for Clears never showed up so I'm back with the Elex after the black Friday deal at Drop. I've been listening for a couple days, there is probably some new toy syndrome going on even though I've owned these before. Impressions are a mix of my present pair and when I owned them previously.

    Current gear used: Pavane L3, -> Freya S -> Stratus with EML Rectifier and Acme 2A3's. Also some listening with the A2 Gungnir Multibit into the Freya.

    These can be very amp picky, originally my favorite pairing was the La Figaro 339, an OTL amp. I no longer have the La Figaro and these synergize quite well with the Stratus as well. With other amps I found these flat and/or metallic sounding. With the proper synergy they have excellent tone and clarity.

    I briefly compared with my Atticus and Autuer (suede pads for both) and found the Elex is less smooth and noticeably sharper than the other two. I have not found this fatiguing but for me these require the right mood. I think Elex is best for bombastic listening where the music grabs you rather than chilling out. I particularly like them for Gothic metal. Yes, Gothic metal is mostly a craptastic wall of sound but the Elex works really well with this genre and enhances what they are trying to do. They are also excellent with other genres I tried including folk rock, grunge, alternative, and classic rock.

    For rich vocals (Stevie Wonder, Queen, Christina Aguilera) there is no contest, my ZMF headphones are much richer and gave me a deeper emotional connection. The bass on the Autuers is cleaner and deeper than the Elex. Bass vs Atticus is harder to tell, the Atticus is more boomy and I think is a bit clearer than the Elex. I tend to use the Atticus as my fun headphones and the Elex belongs in this category with a different flavor.

    For classical, Autuers or Sennheisers are better suited.

    I still intend to move up the Focal ladder, after all the positive hype I need to give the Utopias another shot, but the Elex will scratch this itch for a while and I'm glad I got them again.
     
  18. YMO

    YMO Chief Fun Officer

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    A wonderful angryish guy in NM ( ;) you know who you are) hooked me up with the Elear with a barely used Clear pads, and thus I am wearing the Eclair, which some say is a minor improve over the Elex, or maybe not. Haven't been paying too much time on this one to confirm if the Eclair is slightly better than the Elex. I'll say if I did picked up the Elex, I would just about have the same experience with the Eclair that's on my head ATM. People do know me as a hater of Focal not because of their sound but their headband sucks, and I been bitching about that for years. I pervously had the Clear, which I sold that because the headband was causing too much pain spots on my head. Since picking up the Eclair, I am not having those issues because I cut my hair down pretty damn good. Since the headbands are similar on all of the Focal headphones, I presume that they will fit good on me going forward as long as I get a haircut and cut the hair down pretty good. Also currently these fit better than any of the ZMFs with the Co-Pilot pad, so I guess I'm giving the French more of my business going forward even if they can stop using their Dealer network for stuff?

    First thing first, if you care about soundstage then get something else. These are my second Focals and soundstage is not something they are good that. However, they can be pretty pinpoint on where someone is playing on that small stage. Sometimes I get a 3D effect, most of the time I don't.

    Metal sounding treble can be a thing if you paired the Focals wrong (same thing with their speakers), pair them with the right equipment and there's no metal sounding treble. Some say the treble could be harsh on the Elex and stuff, and so far I'm just not getting that. I'm using two setups which per my profile it's Eitr > Airist RDAC > SW51+ and PI2AES > Bifrost 2 > DNA Starlett. Both setups works great with the Eclair, the Starlett fleshes out the Eclair sound just a little more than the SW51+ setup and makes it a little more resolving. SW51+ however with stock tubes gives the Eclair a little more dynamics without being too much like on some SS amps. SW51+ is a damn good match for the Eclair BTW. I'm treble warry and on these two setups the Eclair performs fine in this area, sometimes there's a minor gain/roughness in the treble but that rarely happens. I presume the higher end cans beyond the Clear will make the treble pop and more details I presume. I can listen to this for hours and I won't even be tired/fatigued not even once.

    Eclair is kind of upfront to me on the mids, but not sticking out too much. It's a great balance of engagement on the vocals/instruments without being too upfront. Even on the DNA Starlett setup I have with the Bifrost 2 it still isn't too forwarded. Since Eclair is more of a super HD600, I prefer the mids slightly more here than on the HD600 where maybe at times the vocals on the HD600 isn't the most pronounced at times for me. Honestly, I think the mids on the Eclair is a great all rounder, but you have to accept that the mids are kind of forward and on certain equipment it is too forward. Bass is great but I think the Clear is better here on subbass (then again, I consider the Clear to be a super HD650 but closer to a HD600 still), but the Eclair is still more than enough on bass response and handling tones from a bass guitar. Solid for rock and most stuff I listen to, maybe not the best for bass-hitting electronic stuff 24/7. If you have a Dynamics fetish, Eclair has plenty to go around on that front.

    I miss the Clear, but after getting the Eclair I'm like the Clear is a bad value for me. Yes, the Clear in certain areas is going to be better than Eclair, but honestly I think the Eclair is like 93% of a Clear. Clear resolves a little better than Eclair, the FR on the Clear is more to my liking than the Elex (which is neutral-brightness but this could change depending on setup), and funny enough the Clear is a little less Dynamic than the Eclair. However, the Eclair brings a huge value on performance on my end that the only way I can make any Focal upgrade make it work is I have to do either the Stellia or Utopia. If I have to pick one of them as of today, Stellia might be the one due to being near the performance of Utopia but closed back (but at the cost of being more warmer slightly V shapped).

    So yeah, Elear with Clear Pads = Eclair or get an Elex is the way to go here if you want Focal value but a good taste of its house sound. Not everyone is going to love it, but with the right equipment it can be excellent. Only do the Clear if you prefer a more HD650ish sound within the Focal lineup. If you just don't wanna spend that money, Eclair or Elex make sense with a collection of headphones. Have the right DAC/Amp setup and you are golden (I recommend SW51+ with these).
     
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2020
  19. PacoTaco

    PacoTaco Friend

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    After years of putting it off, I finally bought an Elex (off of @Phantaminum.) I was hoping this would be close enough to the Clear that I could use it for Rock music and just have the HD800 around for everything else.

    Despite being closer than I thought to the Clear, the tuning just...doesn't seem to be for me. I have found it more fatiguing than the HD800 (with EQ turning the 6khz down to about the same as the SDR mod does.) I can't listen to it very long. The Clear wasn't this way for me...and I think it's because the Elex's treble just sounds incredibly uneven to me and aggressive. I have fun with the Elex for a couple of songs before I just go back to the HD800. It's kind of weird, considering how much I enjoyed listening to the Clear for Rock and Metal.
     
  20. ColtMrFire

    ColtMrFire Writes better fan fics than you

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    Austin, TX
    I think the Clear is a much better headphone, treble is alot smoother and it's noticeably more resolving.
     

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