Magni 3+ and Magni 3 Heresy released

Discussion in 'Headphone Amplifiers and Combo (DAC/Amp) Units' started by redrich2000, Nov 29, 2019.

  1. spwath

    spwath Collegiate hijinks master

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    I used my magni 2 with a resistor box adapting to speakers, keeping a higher impedance to prevent damage to magni.
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2019
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  2. Armaegis

    Armaegis Friend

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    If you're looking for a cheap tiny amp to drive cheap small bookshelf speakers, then just get a topping/tripath/smsl or whatever and call it a day. $50-100 will get you running, though if you haven't gotten the speakers yet then maybe just go with small powered monitors instead.
     
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  3. purr1n

    purr1n Finding his inner redneck

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    Speakers. Nearfield monitors if small space. Not expensive.

    A wise or perhaps crazy man told me tonight that in regards to soundstage and tactility, speakers are like real cars with big motors that vibrate your anus open, and headphones are merely Gran Turismo on PS4.
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2019
  4. bboris77

    bboris77 Friend

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  5. purr1n

    purr1n Finding his inner redneck

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    I generally agree with Ian's assessment. Where I differ is that I don't think the 3 Heresy and 3+ sound all that tonally different or have different transient responses. He's probably splitting hairs, but I'd say that in the overall scheme of things, they are more tonally similar than different.

    Microdynamics suck on Heresy. It's precise and focused, but also flat and boring. And from a measurement performance point of view in regards to commonly used headphones, very similar, unless you can hear hum at 98db below your peak signal levels. (Magni 3+ sucks at AC mains rejection).

    I think I already said in another thread: all these cheap chip 0.000x amps should be thrown away or blown up into smithereens. The only reason they are even discussed on SBAF is because of the disservice that ASR has been doing to the entry-level audiophile community, recommending gear that hits 30db beyond perfect in one or two specific measurements, but sounds like ass.
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2019
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  6. purr1n

    purr1n Finding his inner redneck

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    P.S.

    Heck, I surmise the only reason Schiit even bothered to make a 0.000x chip amp was so show people how easy it was, and to counter the implied statements on ASR that Jason was an incompetent engineer.

    Note the lack of discussion on ASR regarding Magni 3 Heresy. The silence is deafening.
     
  7. rlow

    rlow A happy woofer

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    And one of the most brilliant strategic moves I have seen in some time. :bow: This is some Hannibal or Alexander the Great level Schiit. Jason must have read Sun Tzu recently.
     
  8. Scott Kramer

    Scott Kramer Friend

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    Haha, bet they toned it down from the Magni Bite Me Edition naming.
     
  9. Lyander

    Lyander Too sensitive for SBAF

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    How dare you say that on a public platform where just about anyone on the internet can see :)

    Okay that's enough pooposting from me. Piqued my interest since I've been curious about a good SS amp for casual listening, might report back eventually-ish with comments about the one with unusably horrible measurements (this is a joke, measurements for both seem damn scary good)

    P.S.
    @bboris77 not sure if this was from before you signed up but @Torq used to hang around here. He's got loads of experience with some ridiculously pricey gear and has a decent set of ears besides (considering his age— yes I'm poking fun!); his impressions and reviews carry weight, kinda obvious if you're familiar with his Life After Yggdrasil threads on here and Head-Fi.

    That said, even as a MoT for headphone.com he doesn't seem afraid to point out shortcomings, though he doesn't poop on bad gear as candidly as some on here might. Mind, I have no clue whether he's pooed on anything they actually sell on headphone.com; not casting aspersions, just genuinely something I have no idea about. His impressions are all accounting for tastes of course, so his reviews only have value if they are contextualised properly (as are any review).
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2019
  10. atomicbob

    atomicbob dScope Yoda

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    @purr1n : -120 dBu isn't exactly sucking at mains rejection. When ZDT Jr shipped and hum was observed, threshold of hum audibility was established for Sennheiser HD6x0 and HD800 headphones at -75 dBu.

    SW51+ mains hum measures lower than -85 dBu and is inaudible in my listening environment, ambient less than 20 dBA, with headphones noted above. For those that don't watch other threads, SW51+ is a favorite in my lab.

    I've been ABX testing with 3+ and Heresy. My own evaluation generally agrees with Ian's assessment :

    20191205 Magni 3+ Heresy ABX.jpg

    Note the red gaffers tape over Bifrost-2 IR receiver. That was to keep the DAC blind and not cheat either.
    Actually, the DAC kept responding to the ABX remote.

    *edit* Level matching to 0.05 dB with Keysight 34465A DMM and Schiit Load 300R for HD800-Jmod listening.
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2019
  11. allegro

    allegro Friend

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    Tyler Noble from Schiit (finance director) actually joined ASR and offered to send them Magni 3+ and Heresy to test:)

    Love the black/red colour scheme of the Heresy with a black anodized volume control. I never bought any black finish Schiit gear because the silver knobs detracted from the overall look. Actually brushed silver is starting to look a bit dated now it would be interesting to see more products that look like Heresy.
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2019
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  12. purr1n

    purr1n Finding his inner redneck

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    The big news to me is how well the Magni 3+ measures for a discrete design (point me to a study where a human can tell the difference between -107db and -115db THD+N). We already know designs like the Heresy are easy, so really I don't see what the big deal is with that.
     
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  13. purr1n

    purr1n Finding his inner redneck

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    It's good that they reached out. It would seem that their tune has changed a bit.

    Those numbers are great. Maybe since Tyler reached out, ASR will be more consistent with their standards and methodology across the board. AC mains noise is one area where ASR has applied different standards or borked results to defame Schiit.

    I liked the diddle that Jason wrote regarding discrete designs, and how they are more fun and challenging. Hopefully, the folks at ASR can appreciate that, even if the final results are not as good as -117db, but instead -104db, or god forbid, -78db for tube amps (expected, duh).
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2019
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  14. monacelli

    monacelli Friend

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    I interpreted the release of Heresy as Jason extending an olive branch to the nwavguy/asr acolytes. There are a bunch of people, especially those first getting into the hobby (i.e., 90% of reddit), that adhere to the measurement-first audio philosophy. Instead of trying to change their minds, why not give them something that sounds pretty good and aligns with their worldview? Then if they buy it and like it, who knows, maybe they pick up a DAC and a Loki later. I think it’s a brilliant idea, and one that I didn’t see coming. Schiit is pretty cool about treating everyone’s perspective as valid. If you are hardcore about measurements, that’s great. Here’s something you can enjoy too. The objective v. subjective thing is way overblown.
     
  15. purr1n

    purr1n Finding his inner redneck

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    There is where I am coming from: I was a very early objectivist, one of the earliest on HF, and I even introduced measurements that no one ever had before for headphones: CSDs, distortions, etc. There was a time when people like Jude would rant at meets that I was a measurement facist! That is until he got into the game.

    Part of being objective, or being a scientist, is understanding when things do not matter. Saying -112db SINAD is "very highly recommended, but 85db SINAD is "not recommended", isn't science. It's misinformation. CS, and now SBAF, has always fought against misinformation. This is not a fight against objectivist vs subjectivist schools. This is a fight against misinformation, that quality of audio gear can be distilled into a singular number, without any consideration or experiments conducted on the human perception aspect. This is a fight against people who have hijacked objectivism and science, and turned it in into religion, the one truth, the one number that rules them all.

    It's telling when the "objectivists" who sign up to rant here (and CS before) fail notice the measurements and few blind test results documented on SBAF. We did measurements way before ASR. The reason we just never bothered pushing this was because most things measured good enough, to the point where better results had no correlation with audio quality or sonic truth. But in situations were non-linearities were gross, such as headphones, we proceeded with measurements.

    But yes, good for Jason for wanting to make more money and tap that market segment (as any red-blooded American should). It's just that he never should have had to do this.

    And really, the Magni 3+ doesn't measure extremely well? Fuck you if you think this.
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2019
  16. Raimei Templar

    Raimei Templar Facebook Friend

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    I think its great that Schiit released two Magni versions like this. I really love the idea of having magni 3+ versus Heresy blind tests all over the place. I think a lot of people haven't experienced the difference amps can make and having two affordable, similar (great) measuring amps that sound different would be a eye (ear?) opener for many people.

    Might even spark blind tests becoming more of a regular thing at meets and such which would be great for gathering data as I think blind tests are really the best way to get a clear objective idea of which gear sounds the best to people. It would be quite fascinating to see if a pattern emerges from the gear people seem to like the most, perhaps there is some measurable quality that hasnt been identified yet.

    I didnt believe amps could make as much of a difference as they do until I experienced it for myself and I am sure there are many others like that out there. I think Schiit is doing a great service for the community.

    Also the black/red is awesome looking. Love the red led too, must admit I was tempted to buy one on looks alone but got a Asgard 3 instead as it looked the better buy!
     
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  17. rlow

    rlow A happy woofer

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    FTFY ^
     
  18. allegro

    allegro Friend

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    ASR just reviewed the Magni 3+ and Heresy. Heresy was the one recommended, no surprise there.
    Mission accomplished Jason;)
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2019
  19. Sonorus

    Sonorus Facebook Friend

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    But still he had to write a negative point even if he was going to invent one...

    "Personally though I would not use it due to volume control position. Make sure you are OK with that before committing to it."

    The guy is ridiculous.
     
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  20. itchy

    itchy Rando

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    Notice Amirs snark regarding the 3+ though. He just couldn't help himself, mocks the designing, mocks why anyone would buy it.... Pretty gross.


    Oh hi first post btw
     
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