Pictures of your speaker system

Discussion in 'Speakers' started by Cspirou, Nov 6, 2015.

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  1. Hrodulf

    Hrodulf MOT - Sonarworks

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    It has to do with how your auditory apparatus perceives sound. Up to 15ms every sound that flies to your earholes gets perceived as a single sonic event. This effect is pronounced up to roughly 25ms, when, depending on frequency you will start hearing smearing. Stuff that arrives in 30ms and later starts to contribute to the "room" sound and the feeling of envelopment.

    This is basically the mechanism how reflections alter the tonal balance and imaging.
     
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  2. Josh358

    Josh358 Almost "Made"

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    Contemporary studio design for far-field monitoring does typically put diffusion behind, but in the context of a reflection-free zone. The goal of an RFZ is to suppress early reflections that are delayed by less than 20 ms. These are the reflections that interfere with image width and depth because they mask the first reflections on the recording, and that interfere with clarity because depending on amplitude the brain tends to interpret them as part of the direct signal rather than reverberation.

    Since studio RFZ's rely on angled reflecting surfaces you can't usually arrange them at home, so the best you can do is use methods to reduce the amplitude of undesired early reflections.

    Broadband absorption can reduce the amplitude of early reflections (above 100 Hz or so anyway), but that tends to lower reverberation time (RT60) so much that the room sounds very dry or dead. It doesn't really work for two channel stereo.

    So -- diffusion can also reduce the amplitude of early reflections, but by spreading the sound out so the reflection is diffuse rather than specular. That's like the difference between aiming a flashlight at a matte white wall rather than a mirror. If the amplitude of the first reflections is sufficiently low, it doesn't color the sound or impair the image.

    Essentially, you want to balance diffusion and absorption to a) minimize the amplitude of first reflections and b) maintain a suitable reverberation time (RT60) so the room is neither too wet (reverberant) or too dry.

    There are also some other considerations such as minimizing slap echo (just about anything against a parallel room surface will do this), and of course bass trapping, which is a whole different ball game though if you make absorbers thick (4-6" of fiberglass or rock wool) and mount them off the wall they will be effective down into the midbass. (Diffusers tend not to work at midbass frequencies -- for a QRD, they'd have to be very thick and large to do that.)

    REW and an inexpensive measurement mic will tell you when you've suppressed early reflections, and also will show you RT60 across the audio spectrum -- ideally, you want reverberation time to be the same at every frequency (curtains and carpets tend to reduce RT60 at high frequencies but not at lower ones making a room sound dead -- but you can get braoder absorption by mounting the curtains at a distance from the window).

    There are practical considerations though. For one thing, a number theoretic diffuser like a QRD (1D) or skyline (2D) can only be used effectively at a distance, typically > 8 feet or so. So diffusers that are closer than that typically won't work well and absorption has to be used instead.

    In my own room I've found that what works best is absorption behind my head (it's a small room so I have to sit close to the rear wall), absorption at the first reflection points at the sides (as Purr1n found, diffusion didn't work well there, though it's often used in large spaces, often in conjunction with absorption). Diffusion and absorption didn't work for me on the wall behind the speakers, although usually people prefer diffusion behind dipoles, but for some reason diffusion worked beautifully for me in the front wall corners.

    Of course not everyone has a dedicated room or a secret with which to blackmail their wife, so for most, canny use of home furnishings is probably the best bet. But I think it really depends on the room -- the acoustics companies make some nice wall panels, either in plain fabric that can match your paint or with the option of printing a photograph or painting on them. Or they could be behind a wall hanging or something. So it might be possible to sneak some treatment in if furnishings alone aren't doing the trick.

    I tried to go the furnishings route but my room was really troublesome and ultimately I had to use the absorption panels to get the kind of sound I wanted. The results were spectacular so I put up with it. But I'm personally not fond of overtreatment of the kind you see on acoustics company web pages. Not only will it destroy your marriage, but it will typically result in a room that sounds like a studio control room and that's incredibly clear but not very realistic for two channel. And bass trapping is difficult, particularly below 100 Hz or so. I think bass EQ is a better solution, with sub placement and minimal bass trapping to eliminate nulls that can't be EQ'd out.

    But to each his own. And what you need really depends on the room and furniture, too -- some are good without any treatment at all, others are horrible with problems like echo or slap echo (which however can be fixed with simple remedies like bookshelves) or bay windows, what have you.

    (For what it's worth, Wendell Diller at Magnepan is taking the 30.7's on a North American tour and he said that he'd had them in 49 different rooms and that he heard 49 different 30.7's. Some of the were so bad that they made the 30.7's sound worse than properly set up 3.7's. But he said that in general, the best rooms used diffusion. But that would apply to dipoles, not necessarily to other speaker types.)
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2019
  3. purr1n

    purr1n Finding his inner redneck

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    The sonic energy is diffused, that it is still bounced off, but instead of with a right angle off the wall, it's in theory going in all sorts of different angles off the defuser. Walls like to reflect sounds more in certain frequency ranges, say from 500-5kHz.

    Also the first reflection is the most evil. Best to just get rid of it where our ears are the most sensitive.
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2019
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  4. Xecuter

    Xecuter Brush and floss your amp twice a day

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    mm, I was just wondering about access to cables for my gear and adjusting/switching the rear wall panels if I put a fixed screen in. Those electric roll down ones seem cool but I imagine with my sloped ceiling will be a difficult and expensive install. I'll get some guys out to quote and make suggestions soon.

    The vicoustic panels I have are absorbers but do work to diffuse as well.
    https://www.vicoustic.com/product/wavewood

    [​IMG]

    however not quiet as good as the vicoustic cinema round
    View attachment 16936

    I would like to try a diaphragmatic absorber for the first reflection point to see how they compare, as they seem to absorb the most over the largest frequency range. Honestly though, my mids/highs are pretty damn flat at this point, so I'm not really chasing improvements above 500hz.
     
  5. Josh358

    Josh358 Almost "Made"

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    I've been seeing absorption with scattering plates a lot, GIK also sells them. I wonder if they have the same distance limitations as conventional diffusers, e.g., whether they could be used on a rear wall if you have to sit close to it as I do.

    BTW, I've had good luck with an inexpensive Monoprice motorized screen that I bought on sale -- no wrinkles after maybe five years of use, even though it isn't tab tensioned.[​IMG]
    You do have to make sure to retract it after use, because it puts the screen under tension when you do and I think that's what keeps it from developing wrinkles.

    If you look at my ceiling, you can see that it's badly warped (panorama shot is distorted but compare it to the flat top of the screen housing, you can see how badly the ceiling is curved). It wasn't a problem for me, since the screen has only two brackets so I just used a level and fastened it to the fake beam (covers a steam pipe) behind it. If you mount a screen to the ceiling, you can use suspension cables or chains and adjust the length of those to keep it level.
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2019
  6. mscott58

    mscott58 Friend

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    Isn't it dangerous having your speakers so close to that open flame? ;)
     
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  7. sphinxvc

    sphinxvc Gear Master (retired)

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    Optimal acoustics can be achieved with earplugs for Sandra Bullock's 20 minutes of breathy heaving and moaning in that scene.
     
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  8. Josh358

    Josh358 Almost "Made"

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    You can't see it, but there's a radiator behind the panels on the other side and I'm always afraid they're going to melt. :)
     
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  9. Josh358

    Josh358 Almost "Made"

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    LOL
     
  10. rlow

    rlow A happy woofer

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    You want to block out those sounds???

    Huh. To each his own I guess. :p
     
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  11. edzyy

    edzyy Rando

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    Let's try this again.

    Integra DTR 6.5
    Asus Essence STX(DAC)
    Philharmonic AA monitors
    Martin Logan Dynamo 800

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    This is my first "real" set up, so I'm learning as I go.

    Future plans are

    New Dac and Amp
    IsoAcoustics stands
    and probably a better subwoofer.
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2019
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  12. spwath

    spwath Collegiate hijinks master

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    Moved back home, college semester over.
    Moved desktop speaker setup.

    Using speakers as speaker stands.

    Only thing that I actually bought new in this entire picture is my mouse and mousepad...
    Oh yeah, and that home depot bucket to make an evaporative air conditioner.
    [​IMG]

    Still need to find wherever I packed my tubes for my headphone amp...
     
  13. Thad E Ginathom

    Thad E Ginathom Friend

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    Isn't resonance a potential problem.... or am I being an audiophool to have that idea?
     
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  14. ufospls2

    ufospls2 Friend

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    Current set up with the Kinki and Holo Audio Chi-Fi superstack.

    [​IMG]
     
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  15. Garns

    Garns Friend

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    I've finally got things set up in a half way decent fashion at my new place. This room is everyone's favourite 8.5 x 9 x 9 cube and it's both a listening room and a study. I am lucky to have the world's smallest desk, but even so, it's pretty tight, so I'm rocking the diagonal setup.

    Despite the huge bare wall beside the listening position, it doesn't sound bad at all. The sealed box 8" woofers are plenty enough for the space. The tapestry behind the speakers is unreasonably effective. I'm gonna do a big latchhook hanging to put at the first reflection points on the bare wall, and maybe try and find a super thin bookcase, and then I'm done.

    a.JPG
    b.JPG
     
  16. fraggler

    fraggler A Happy & Busy Life

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    Consumer-fi in a horrible space ftw!
    [​IMG]

    Energy RC-10 bookshelf speakers
    Energy RC-LCR center channel
    Dayton SUB-800 subwoofer
    Denon X3400H AV receiver
    Nvidia Shield streamer
    65" LG C8 TV

    I'm pretty happy with it already even though I haven't done any tweaking like Audessey XT32 or room treatments. For music, the Energy RC-10s pair up pretty nicely with the little Dayton Sub-800 (the Rythmik L12 I want is currently backordered). Little Energy RC-Micro satellites on top of the RC-10s are going to be angled back to bounce off the ceiling and used as Atmos height speakers since I wasn't able to install ceiling speakers. Honestly, this set up sounds better than the Overnight Sensations off of my Adcom 5200 and Modi Multibit in the office. Probably due to being used in a nearfield config in a tiny closet of an office. I will have to see how the OSes do on this setup with some room to breath. While not system I dreamed about after going to Axpona, I don't think I am so far off that I stress about it until my budget opens up enough to jump to something significantly better.

    At any rate you can see the cramped wall and bump out near the left speaker. Not really sure what to do about the adverse effects of the placement. Luckily, my ears aren't as trained and picky as normal audiophiles and I don't notice anything horribly wrong.
     
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  17. Cspirou

    Cspirou They call me Sparky

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    Northwest France
    E013315C-E0F3-49EA-930B-5DC8BE07219A.jpeg

    I built these a couple years ago and now that I am back in France I can post a pic. They are known as TABAQ (Tang Band Quarterwave) speakers. I was inspired to build these after reading about the Kvarte & Bølge Sound Sommeliers and then found out that it is an adaptation of the DIY TABAQ by the same designer. It is probably the most active thread on diyaudio in the full-range section.

    I almost built these completely by hand. Just a sheet of poplar plywood and some hand saws. Near the end I was getting fedup so I managed to laser cut a couple pieces. I ended up using a bit of wood filler for some gaps and I don't think it's affected the sound. I still plan to paint these so I still don't consider them finished, but they are definitely functional. Only speakers I have been able to A/B them with are the DIY fe83en that I also built. The TABAQs reach deeper for sure, but it seems like I lose some resolution in the treble compared to the Fostex. I hope to reach the best of both worlds with my next build which will be a folded transmission line for the very special fe103-SOL drivers I have.
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2019
  18. LetMeBeFrank

    LetMeBeFrank Won't tell anyone my name is actually Francis

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    Edit: Panorama shot sucked, here's a better normal picture:
    [​IMG]

    This room isn't ideal with the fireplace, and doing double duty as a living room / home theater, but it's good enough for now. 2 channel setup is Vinyl rig or HiFiBerry Digi+ Pro > BJC Coax > Emotiva PT-100 > Emotiva A-150 > 1994 KEF Reference Model Three.

    KEF recommends keeping the speakers 90° to the wall with 6-8 inches of space behind them, which does sound best to me.

    This setup is far above and beyond anything else I've ever experienced, so my excitement from it is still going strong after 3 months. Bass is very textured and impactful, no more one-note bass like the Klipsch VF-36 have. Mids are fantastic, similar to the Sennheiser 6XX family of headphones. Treble is smooth and detailed. Soundstage and imaging is also incredible thanks to the Uni-Q drivers.
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2019
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  19. Ardacer

    Ardacer needs to read more, post less

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    [​IMG]

    Lx521.4 + 2 big subs that are also a part of 7.2 (these 3 krk's are center and LR channels). PS4, xbox one S, tablet that has radio (digital and analog), tv, dvd. Wifi headphones (RS180). Two light LED color changing cilinders and LED glass cabinet (some alcohol there...)

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    Subs are daytons 385 15 inch, in 170l cabinets.
    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    PC/lab part. DIY 2.1 speakers, rear parts of 7.2, rode nt1a and a shitton of headphones.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

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    it will be something like that, planning space for it[​IMG]
    cherries from my garden :)
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2019
  20. Ardacer

    Ardacer needs to read more, post less

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    What will you do with the Klipsch?
     

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